Marriott Going to Point Syst

As gblotter said there will be increased competition for the better resorts. If one thinks it is difficult to reserve a unit at Canyon Villas during spring training with point people on board it is going to get tougher. When an individual buys enough points at a resort to stay in prime time, when they request their time they are now competing with the deeded owner. When ski season arrives and a points person who skis has enough points they can request to stay 13 months in advance, they are now competing with the deeded owners. If the points person requests earlier than a deeded owner I think they get the week. Marriott should allow deeded owners who bought from Marriott the opportunity to join the points program without the initial fee. We paid more for our property then the third party buyer. The annual fee I can accept. If we don,t jump into the points program they may realize they need our weeks to make the program successful and may offer to grandfather us into the program.

Current Assessment of Marriott’s New Destination Plan.

The plan has now been in the Marketplace for 18 days. Here is how I think Marriott is doing.

1. The Plan has lots to like especially if you purchased multi-units from third parties. (other then Marriott.) The ability to stay less then a week (or add a few days unto your week) or staying in a different size unit are a nice features. So is being able to convert to Rewards Points every other year – especially if you are an international traveler. 2. If you purchased from Marriott in the first place, then you already had the ability to convert to Reward Points, but you gain the Vacation Point features and the fee is less to join.

What is not nifty? 1. The contract that owners have to sign to participate has a couple provisions that commit the owner to supporting the new points program as well as not saying things against it. This was a very poor decision by Marriott: - It presents a conflict of interest if any Board members sign it. Their fiduciary responsibility is to owners – not to Marriott. - It does not enhance the single most important thing Marriott has to sell – which is TRUST. Owners should be encouraged to provide truthful feedback – not be constrained by this type of provision.

2. Marriott has done a less then satisfactory job in training their people to provide accurate answers to questions. I have made over 10 calls in an attempt to understand provisions of the new plan. Answers to the same questions have varied widely. In addition, some questions still don’t have answers. It is difficult to understand introducing a program of this magnitude without first making sure all the loose ends are nailed down and people properly trained to CORRECTLY answer them. It would be helpful if the Q&As on the internet site was updated to answer the additional commonly asked questions.

Since I am a multi-week owner it is my intent to join the program. It is also my intent to do my best to factually state what is good and what isn’t about the program to both Marriott and other owners. It is my hope Marriott will promptly drop the provisions in the contract that require owners to avoid sharing their real opinions unless their views are favorable to the program. I would be interested in hearing from those who are members of the Boards of Marriott timeshare properties as to how they plan to meet their fiduciary responsibilities to owners and also sign the current contract.

Last, is also my strong view that it is in our interest for this program to be successful. I fail to see how those of us who own Marriott Timeshare can gain by having Mariott not be successful with how they handle this program. But we also need to be able to provide other owners factual informaton as well as provide Marriott our views based on factual information.

Does anyone know how this new Marriott points program will impact owner ability to sell their unit(s) in the future? (While I realize you buy a timeshare for usage rather than to sell it, realistically the time may come eventually for us all to sell.) Redweek.com has provided a good resource for doing this in the past, but will this new Marriott program jeopardize the opportunity to sell?

The new points program should make it easier to sell high demand deeded property -- once the ecomony improves and buyers REALLY understand the new points program.

If you wish to actually go to some high demand timeshare that has been sold out for some time you would be better off purchasing deeded property then purchasing points. The only way you can get there with points is if a deeded property owner turns in his unit for points.

Since points are costly and third party sales prices are low, this is a great time to purchase.

I just want to know where we can sign up for the class action law suit?

One must have to wonder what y Marriott is requiring people to sign a contract stating that they will NOT voice their opinions of the new plan! Obviously, they must have something to hide. I don't know why anyone who buy into this plan with that kind of stipulations?

I thought Marriott said after a certain date in June new thrid party buyers of Marriott Property would not be allowed into the points program. Also what would be their status when attemtping to book the property. Will individuals who bought from Marriott have priority over a third party buyer's request? If they are not allowed into the points program and not allowed to exchange for reward points the cheap price may not be worth much. The question of how the points program will effect being able to sell Marriott Property in the future is an excellent question. Right now Marriott has a retail department that sells Marriott Property but I do not know the guidelines to list with them.

I own at Ko Olina Beach Club on Oahu and took a sales tour. Basically, points owners have their own inventory. I can always reserve like I always have.

This is going to be a long post. Some of it is opinion and some of it is fact. I'll try to differentiate. I have gathered selected comments from the prior posts (without naming the source - too cumbersome, because there are too many quotes) - sorry.

The best question, which is my question, has no current answer. But I am hoping to hear from someone soon...

"I just want to know where we can sign up for the class action law suit?"

"Right now Marriott has a retail department that sells Marriott Property but I do not know the guidelines to list with them." I do, and will comment shortly.

"I took a survey from Marriott about 1 1/2 years ago about this and I gave them this same feedback....obviously my thoughts didn't resonate with them" - I did too, and they didn't listen to me either. But, on the other hand, I listened to them! At the time I owned 4 Marriott weeks. I have sold 3 (all through Marriott). They have a non-exclusive right to sell (meaning you can list it with them and try to sell it on your own, see what comes first). There is a catch. If they sell it, you have to sell at their list price (good, if they can sell it, bad if their price is so absurdly high that it will never sell - FYI you get 60% of the proceeds, Marriott keeps 40%). It will be at least 50 years before my last week (White, Marriott Desert Springs Villas 1, bought Feb 1991 for $12,600, being "offered" by Marriott resale at $22,200). Can you imagine anyone buying MDS at that price for 2375 points? I think I am 63rd on the waiting list to sell. It will not sell in my lifetime. But, I am getting out of Marriott timeshares within the next few weeks, one way or another. (Question for the lawyer back in question 1 - does selling all my weeks make me ineligible for the class action lawsuit?)

"The concept is great" - what are you smoking?

"Since the purchasers of deeded weeks own them regardless of from whom they were purchased and Marriott no longer does, it isn't clear to me how they can legally can apply this restriction" - seems like more grounds for the aforementioned class action lawsuit?

"The larger questions is: since everyone wishes to sell their unit at some point, what role is Marriott going to play on sales transactions -- either points or units?" - Fact (per Marriott resale office, 8403 South Park Circle, Suite 600, Orlando, Florida 32819, Toll Free 1-866-682-4547), I can convert to points or leave it weeks - in either case, their selling price for White MDS remains $22,200. So, at that price, for that property, Marriott will play NO role in sales transactions - these types of units will have to be sold in the 3rd party market.

"What's to say the points won't be worth less in a few years- just like the Marriott rewards points system-250,000points doesn't get you what it did 8 years ago" - no kidding, only "8 years" should be corrected to 'prior to Jan 15, 2009.' That is the date when inflation killed Marriott Rewards Points. Will they do the same with Vaction Points? Who knows?

"The days of bargain trading are gone." Amen. That was successful for me for 19 years, which is why I increased my portfolio to 4 weeks. I used some for Reward Points and some for trading and have traded into every Marriott property and used points for the Wailea Marriott (and previously Renaissance) as well as London, Rome, Paris, Tokyo, New York, etc.) Those days are gone and, as noted previously, soon I will simply be a 'previous MVCI owner.'

"Some deeded week owners deliberately purchased at inexpensive locations that they had no intention of visiting. Their sole focus is on trading. " Amen, see above. This was spectacularly successful for 19 years. I enjoyed the ride. The party is over.

"the net effect will be to create even more competition for the desirable weeks in the desirable locations that people really want to visit." - I am not sure about 'more competition' - to me, Marriott just monopolized the competition - they have cherry picked the hottest weeks in each location and placed a point price tag on them such that few will have the points available to get them, freeing them up for astronomical rental rates. I pity the new "buyers" in the new sales programs being shown all these incredible weeks they could buy into, only if they have enough points, and then their disappointment when (I suspect) reality hits.

"It's only when you want to exchange internally through Marriott that you would use points." - say it ain't so!! I still have a 2BR, 1BR and efficiency in deposit at II with (faint) hopes of landing a Marriott week somewhere. And rest assured, it won't be with points. If the quoted statement is true, Marriott lied to me in one of my many calls to 800-845-4226 where they said you can still trade from Marriott into Marriott with II like always.

"there will be no chance to do II Marriott to Marriott trades as in the past." - see above, I hope this isn't true and 800-845-4226 lied to me if it is.

"betrayed by Marriott" - Amen "Marriott is scamming its current loyal owners." - Amen "We have been very happy with our Marriott timeshare experience." - me too, but now,.. "probably a great source of revenue for Marriott " - in their dreams, but I don't think the general public is going to be foolish enough to pay the prices they will charge. "I see no reason for a current owner to be hacked at Marriott" - huh? "Frankly I don't think you will see much change if you wish to use your unit the way you always have." - dream on. If it were only so. See below. "Do you really believe that Marriott will claim the crappy weeks and leave the prime weeks alone?" - my point exactly. If you examine the details of the tables they have created for every resort, you will see that they have picked out the most desirable weeks and priced them at a point level that (nearly) no one has. I can't prove this, but looking at those tables, it is my estimation that less than 10,000 of 400,000 owners still have access to 100% of the weeks that the previously had access to (if they convert to points). Those 10000 would be the ones where the resort sold week 52 as a separate option, often for nearly 6 figures or more. But, in the past, few resorts had a separately priced week 52. In my case (White MDS), I have access to 6 of the 20 weeks that I previously had access to. They threw in 7 of 8 'Blue' weeks, but I wouldn't have enough points to even get one of the newly priced Blue weeks!!!!!! Anyway, for those converting to points, they either buy more points or stay away from desirable weeks. It is that simple (or they can go every other year, when they bought a deed to go every year!).

“Marriott could theoretically take all the good weeks" - duh! They already did!! There is no 'theory' - look at the tables.

"I were to book 13 months in advance as a deeded owner of two timeshares, that should level the playing field. Am I correct? I hope we have the advantage over point owners at our resorts What is to stop them from selling points over and over until the availability is frustratingly low? " reminds me of Dusty Springfield, wishing and hoping.

"Have you asked Marriott how they plan to handle this or just assume worst case?" - both. I've asked, and everything points to the worst case.

"Apparently Marriott has forgotten that a reputation takes years to build and minutes to lose." - this seems like a good place to end my rant.

Reading the comments from judithd63 - turn 2 weeks into 4 by using lockoff features - brought up another point that I failed to mention. That is, not only did Marriott short you when they handed out points for your week (if I converted to points, my point allocation removes 70% of the weeks that I had access to with my original purchase - unless I buy more points), they REALLY shorted you if you were going to use points for lockoff. It is not a zero sum game. Some examples of the point structure: Desert Springs (Mar-Apr plus assorted other weeks) 2BR 4225 1BR 2775 Studio 1950 Shortfall 500 points (per stay) For other periods, the shortfall is 350-450 points

Looking at Lahaina/Napili Towers at Maui, OF week 52 2BR 10,425 1BR 6875 Studio 4700 shortfall 1150 points

Or, using the least desirable period for Lahaina/Napili Towers OF 2BR 7,450 1BR 4875 Studio 3375 shortfall 800 points

Or, using the least desirable view (IV) for the cheapest weeks 2BR 4700 1BR 3100 Studio 2175 shortfall 575 points

Conclusion (other than you have been screwed) is: Stay out of the point system, or Buy more points, or Don't use lockoff to get more vacation weeks

There are so many comments on this site that makke so little sense that it is hard to know where to begin. If you have a question, call Marriott. and ask it. If you don't like the point plan don't particapate in it and just continue to do what you were doing. So if you could do everything you were doing before, what is the problem? Those who are currently deeded owners have the best of both worlds. You can continue to use your property like you did previously or convert it to points for some additonal trading flexibility that you did not previously have.

I cannot believe how uninformed and paranoid that some of the people on this board, TUG and TS4Ms are. Read the information on the MCVI website. It is clear that you DO NOT HAVE TO PARTICIPATE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO.

All this nonsense about what people think is specualative at best. If you bought a week in a less demanded season to trade, there was never a guarantee in the first place so stop whining. You may still be able to have the opportunity with II. Regardless of Marriott keeping the system the way it was or not, you would still have competition as new owners came in and bought weeks.

You were only guaranteed the week you bought in your season. No more, no less.

Cut the class action lawsuit mess. There are no grounds. You can still reserve your week for when you bought and you don't have to participate in the points program. It's your choice. Marriott is not the first nor will it be the last to go to a points system. A class action lawsuit would only cost all of us owners more money. READ YOUR ORIGINAL PAPERWORK TO MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION AS TO WHAT YOU ARE BEING DENIED. YOU WILL FIND ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

I am not a Marriott employee or anything associated with them.I am a single week owner and I bought at Ko Olina before it opened. I enjoy going over there. I will not be buying any points and am still undecided about joining the weeks program. I don't like spending extra money if I can avoid it. However, the program does have some merit. I like options. All of us who are previous owners should just suck it up and stop the nonsense. You can use the old system and call it a day and stop fearing these unchartered waters.

"If you don't like the point plan don't particapate in it and just continue to do what you were doing." - that would be wonderful, if it were only true. It is not. Why is it not true? Three simple reasons why I believe the timeshare experience is irreversibly altered for weeks owners who do not enroll.

1- The false assertion that I will get the same weeks I have always gotten (the weeks that I bought and paid good money for!!!). Only time will tell if this assertion is true of false. This is nothing I can prove until 10+ years from now. That is, I haven't gotten Thanksgiving week every single year (I haven't tried every year), but I have gotten it most years that I tried (over 19 years). If I don't get it this year, it won't 'prove' my case. But, if I am unable to get it in 10 tries over 10 years, it will 'prove' my case. A little late, but access to weeks (IMHO) will be GREATLY altered in the new system. Highly valued weeks are going elsewhere in the new system, not to weeks owners.

2- Assertion that Marriott-Marriott trades won't change. This is something that I have been enormously successful at accomplishing through II. Again, time will tell. But, it seems to me that II trading has already dried up considerably, and I will have to report back in 10 years about my experience.

3 - AC - accommodation certificates, bonus weeks from II for placing highly sought after weeks into the II system for trade. I received (and used) 2 II AC certificates during 3 years of ownership of Marriott Hilton Head Sunset Point - summer week, platinum season. I got the July 4th week (although the certificate was being issued for any summer week) every year (again, I think access to the Juy 4th week will disappear, time will tell). I bought Sunset Point through Marriott resale and resold through Marriott resale - it closed just last month. Marriott is 'only' charging 1400 points for a summer week at Sunset Point. Do you really think II will offer AC for a 1400 point week? I don't, only time will tell.

All of the claims that I am making are, of course, theoretical, since I have no intention of being an owner for 10 more years (or even 1 more year), so someone else's data (or the class action lawsuit based on these grounds) will have to be the determining factor of who was right and who was wrong.

A timeshare owner has a choice to rent it, use it or trade it. I have never rented out my timeshare. The only thing that owners (who rent) care about is the week they get (better renting rates for prime weeks). I have rarely stayed in my timeshare that I own, but those who do only care if they can get the week they want (prime week). As a trader (that is me), I care about the week I get (more value in II system) and the trades I get (what is offered, what is available) and AC. These all change.

Marriott's defense (against any class action lawsuit) must be that 'nothing changed' for existing owners if they choose to not participate. That is the line that I have been told through repeated calls to 800-845-4226. But, based on the answers I have gotten and the data I have seen (points to be given to 'enrolled' owners, cost of points to reserve weeks), I believe things are changing drastically for existing weeks owners who do not enroll. I can't prove it, any more than you can prove they won't change. Marriott can say things won't change, but that doesn't make it so. It will take data (last 10 years, next 10 years) to really prove who is right. Data that Marriott and II will not easily make available.

"There are so many comments on this site that makke so little sense" - the only comments I see that make little (no) sense is 'things won't change.' But, I would be interested in knowing which comments "makke so little sense?"

bob2001 wrote:

"If you don't like the point plan don't particapate in it and just continue to do what you were doing." - that would be wonderful, if it were only true. It is not. Why is it not true? Three simple reasons why I believe the timeshare experience is irreversibly altered for weeks owners who do not enroll.

1- The false assertion that I will get the same weeks I have always gotten (the weeks that I bought and paid good money for!!!). Only time will tell if this assertion is true of false. This is nothing I can prove until 10+ years from now. That is, I haven't gotten Thanksgiving week every single year (I haven't tried every year), but I have gotten it most years that I tried (over 19 years). If I don't get it this year, it won't 'prove' my case. But, if I am unable to get it in 10 tries over 10 years, it will 'prove' my case. A little late, but access to weeks (IMHO) will be GREATLY altered in the new system. Highly valued weeks are going elsewhere in the new system, not to weeks owners.

2- Assertion that Marriott-Marriott trades won't change. This is something that I have been enormously successful at accomplishing through II. Again, time will tell. But, it seems to me that II trading has already dried up considerably, and I will have to report back in 10 years about my experience.

3 - AC - accommodation certificates, bonus weeks from II for placing highly sought after weeks into the II system for trade. I received (and used) 2 II AC certificates during 3 years of ownership of Marriott Hilton Head Sunset Point - summer week, platinum season. I got the July 4th week (although the certificate was being issued for any summer week) every year (again, I think access to the Juy 4th week will disappear, time will tell). I bought Sunset Point through Marriott resale and resold through Marriott resale - it closed just last month. Marriott is 'only' charging 1400 points for a summer week at Sunset Point. Do you really think II will offer AC for a 1400 point week? I don't, only time will tell.

All of the claims that I am making are, of course, theoretical, since I have no intention of being an owner for 10 more years (or even 1 more year), so someone else's data (or the class action lawsuit based on these grounds) will have to be the determining factor of who was right and who was wrong.

A timeshare owner has a choice to rent it, use it or trade it. I have never rented out my timeshare. The only thing that owners (who rent) care about is the week they get (better renting rates for prime weeks). I have rarely stayed in my timeshare that I own, but those who do only care if they can get the week they want (prime week). As a trader (that is me), I care about the week I get (more value in II system) and the trades I get (what is offered, what is available) and AC. These all change.

Marriott's defense (against any class action lawsuit) must be that 'nothing changed' for existing owners if they choose to not participate. That is the line that I have been told through repeated calls to 800-845-4226. But, based on the answers I have gotten and the data I have seen (points to be given to 'enrolled' owners, cost of points to reserve weeks), I believe things are changing drastically for existing weeks owners who do not enroll. I can't prove it, any more than you can prove they won't change. Marriott can say things won't change, but that doesn't make it so. It will take data (last 10 years, next 10 years) to really prove who is right. Data that Marriott and II will not easily make available.

"There are so many comments on this site that makke so little sense" - the only comments I see that make little (no) sense is 'things won't change.' But, I would be interested in knowing which comments "makke so little sense?"

As you state, you have no proof of the future and all of your thoughts are theoretical, thus a bunch of speculation and perhaps unnecessary anxiety. You have made my point. Only time will be able to tell this story. In the meantime, enjoy your timeshare, but don't worry about something that can, could, might, or maybe happen. It's a waste of everyone's energy.

I suggest that we observe and report what is happening to us both positively and negatively. Let's try to use the system to our advantage if possible. That's how one should view all situations. Deal with the rules you have and use them to your advantage.

Greetings,

Having spent 3hrs last with the Grand Chateau master sales exec and manager I am more comfortable that Marriott has at least taken the high road and left the current deeded owners all their original and exisiting options for using their units. The new points program is all Marriott will sell from introduction forward.

I did hear that Marriott resales properties (purchased prior to 20 Jun 2010) would be made eligible again for Marriott Rewards based on the amounts and frequency provided to the original buyer. Has anyone heard this as well? This was a key incentive to enroll in marriott points program.

I do wonder if Marriott's decision to not allow third party Marriott resales after 20 Jun 2010 to be enrolled in the points program also might mean:

1. They plan to reduce the urge for owners to sell directly to outside buyers by further limiting the "value" of third party sales (no rewards points and now no participation in MVCI points exchange)

2. That they will be exercising their first right of refusal for the best Marriott properties.

Seems to me this would drive owners back to using MVCI as the source for selling off units. MVCI would sell as points (trust deed) using retail $9.20/pt and share the normal 60/40% split with the seller. For Marriott this keeps the property value high by contraining the third party sales channel. For long-term owner it does keep our property values higher. Downside is buy MVCI resale units via a distressed third party would become less likely and beneficial.

I do have an Interval Intl related question too. How will II allow non-Marriott owners to exchange for Marriott points inventory? Seems there must be a standard scheme for that to occur perhaps after Marriott owner early access 13/12 month rules. Anyone hear how II will handle this one?

Thoughts???

EC Marriott owner since 1985 and owner of over 20 other TSs

PS I'm still undecided on enrolling my original and/or resale Marriott units in the points exchange program.

Good question. Marriott formed their own exchange company so that Marriott Points go to the Marriott exchange. My sales rep told us (Ko Olina Beach Club) that we can give points to II for non Marriott Properties but it's still done through Marriott. I think that what Marriott is doing is giving II an actual week that the pointsn owner got for his points. When this happens, and it may not happen that much, then you will see II owner weeks getting into the Marriott system. We are going to attempt to do something here soon. We are going to request a studio in Kauai Beach Club and then deposit that week to II and see how it trades. Any ideas?

Does anyone know what this does to our maintenance fees? How do they assign a value to that? If I stay as a deeded owner am I pinched and pay higher than if I switched to points? According to their site there is an annual fee $165 which includes all the lock off fees I used to pay. My maintenance fee was in the $800 range this year, are they trying to get us to move over to points by waving a carrot of a lower maintenance fee?

Also, I too plugged in my "value" of my 3 bedroom/2 bath oceanview(at the Maui Ocean Club) unit which we always lock off to stay 2 weeks. My value is 5850, in order to stay my 14 days like we usually do I needed 13000 for the weeks we go! Huh?

I guess I need to get on the phone and start asking some questions!

Ok so I called and what the nice rep told me was the $165 fee is in ADDITION to your maintenance fees which for us would be silly to convert. We only pay $75 for lock-off and we are not enrolled in Interval to exchange. She said this point system would not be ideal for us(no doubt!). This is not geared for people who like to go to their home resort all the time. We bought Maui because we like going to Maui. I then asked her ok, since this isn't a system for me how is this going to affect our resort? Our location is sold out, how can you sell points to a place that is no longer selling? She said they have to wait until those who are deeded convert to points! So people in Maui who like Maui DON'T convert, you will have a heck of a time getting back because you now have gone into a pool(no pun) of points! Now if you like traveling all over this might be right for you since you can use your value to go elsewhere which I thought was the point of banking for reward points. Whatever!

As for me, we are Maui people and they will never get me to convert which I think just made me more valuable :-) She also said people who have bought and are deeded own the inventory. Maui isn't going to be able to sell many points unless we give up and convert.

To those reading the note from the Maui owner. If you have deeded property -- which we all have currently -- you don't convert your deeded property to points perminately. It is an ANNUAL OPTION. If you wish to go to your home location it will not likely make sense to convert to points that year. If you wish to go somewhere for less then a week or perhaps use a 1 bedroom rather your your 2, converting that year make be appropriate.

The rep never indicated that this was an annual option. She did say that there was paperwork to be filled out and that we would go into a "trust". Seems to me like a lot of paperwork to go back and forth, J227 do you work for Marriott?