Outrageous 2009 Maintenance Fees

$2,520.27 for a Phase One 2-bed lock-off that's probably only worth $10,000. What on earth is going on?

By my reckoning, 52 weeks and 82 units, that's $10.7m a year to "maintain" Phase One.

We as owners are being taken for fools. Does anyone here have the skills to set up a website group where harborside owners can act together in petitioning the management to get these fees down.

When I purchased in 2001, annual fees were around $1,300. They've now doubled in 8 years.

Paul, Your so right on about the fees. I feel that the fees are so high it's like we are paying hotel rates to stay there. Why did we invest in a purchase?. On the renters side however what a deal they are getting. KB

Paul, you may see that I raised this issue last year when I was concerned about buying at Atlantis. I did buy a resale week 12 but the fees have been going up more than i even expected. I am not sure what can be done. I think a website is a good idea to get a number of owners organized. We also need to gather all of the documents to better understand whatever rights we may have--or not. I expect people who bought directly from the developer may have a better case for misrepresentation because I know they did not tell prospective buyers that the fees would increase the way they have. At a minimum we need to provide a letter from as many owners as possible demanding a more thorough accounting of the fees and expenses. The problem is do really be effective we need money for an audit firm, for lawyers and for IT people and I am not sure people will be able to pull all of that together.

During my call to pay my fees this year I questioned the increases and was told I should read the contract I signed upon purchase because it states that fees can increase up to 12% per year and that the increases have been less than that. Is this true? Admittedly I have not reviewed my contract but can tell you we paid 1,992 in 06 2,300 in 07 which was the largest jump in 08 it actually decreased to 2275 and for 09 a whopping 2,551.72. There is no set increase. It does seem an insane amount, but you have to admit that the units are really well maintained and there was a total renovation of phase 1 this year which I have yet to see first hand. I'm in on helping out but have no legal skills. KB

Karen, Trish and Paul. As an owner I think a website is a really great idea. As to whether we can address maintenance fees, please let me direct all to the Bahamaian Newsletter which cites rampant crime and correction in the islands; fraud and corruption by the most trusted authorities and the lawyers. To use a lawyer in the Bahamas is like handing a rope to the executioner. The website is:http://www.BahamasB2B.com. Not certain but I think US attornies not permitted. We are constantly told (and it is true) that every year new attractions are added. Their constructions cost and your timeshare value is increased. All true. Nevertheless the fees are way out of hand. patriciagayle

There's also discussion about this on the Timeshare User Group (TUG) Starwood Forum. - see http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88159

I am also an owner of phase I 2 bedroom unit and am furious over the increase. They have priced me out of being able to take a vacation there with the price of airfare for a family of 5. I am going to check out my paperwork and have my sister in law, an attorney, review it. My parents have owned timeshares on Marco Island for 20 years and their maintenance is still less then $1000.00 and they have been fully renovated twice. I can't figure out where it is going but I don't think my timeshare should factor into the additions to the Atlantis resort/hotel. Start your group and count me in. This matter needs to be taken the the association members that we elect.

I am an owner at Maui North and Kauai. Maui maintenance fees went up 6.1% to about 2000 for a 2bdrm lock-off and Kauai went up 19.84% to apprx 2400 for a 2bdrm lock-off. When we bought we thought that it would only cost 900 for Maui 2bdrm and 1100 for Kaui for a 2bdrm.

All these rants about Maintenance Fees are 100% out of our control. What we CAN control are our rental prices! C'mon people.....as of today there are 215 available rentals at Harborside. We are GIVING OUR UNITS AWAY and the general public is taking us as fools. Check the prices of our units on the Atlantis' Website.....they are charging OUTRAGEOUS daily rates and they are GETTING it, I assume.....

Look, there's really no way we can organize logistically any kind of Grass Roots team of owners to combat the Condo Fees....way, way too complicated. What we CAN do is pass some of this added condo fee expense on to our Tenants. STOP REDUCING PRICES! Some of the asking prices are really sickening....you folks are WAY too low!

We are in control and we are doing this to ourselves...this is a World Class Resort at it is EXPENSIVE to own here.....CHARGE APPROPRIATELY for it!

Lets vote out our current Condo Association Board of Directors and replace them with people who will take both Starwood and Kershner Corporation to task. I also own phase 1 2BR Lock off week 4.

Do you know that we own share of stock at Atlantis or as Fractionated Fee Condo Ownership and we pay for percentage of all improvements at the Atlantis Park.

I'm willing to be part of Task Force Committee to meet with both Starwood and Kershner and be part of new Board. Also, check our Comfort Suites - they enjoy free benefits to use Atlantis owned by Kershner. I do have more to add later.

I was told yesterday that owners of the Harborside, Atlantis Bahamas Timeshares, Starwood has the rights under their so called contract agreement to raise the annual maintenance fees from 1% to 20% per annum???

Can anyone verify this, I did not see this is in my contract. Our Owners Association need to be fired if they continue to just go through the motion every year. There is an enormous amount of capital reserves set aside every year, not being spent or off-setting the increases.

I own a two bedroom Lockoff. I feel the maintance fees are totally out of line now. I am hoping there is an owner who might be a Lawyer who could offer some advice. Somehow us owners together need to petition an external audit of where all the maintainace fees are going. I am all for a website for owners of Harborside to voice opinons. I feel everyone needs to at least (1) write letter of complaint on excessive maintance fees (2) Voice opinon when checking into Haborside (not sure who best to voice opinon, (3) try to obtain industry average on maintanence fees compared to Harborside.

I definitely agree with all of you on the Maintenance Fees.

When we signed the contract to buy our 3-bedroom villa a Harborside they said our maintenance fees were about $1900 which at that time we thought was high also but three years later we're up to 2500. Big increase!

I wrote the Board of Directors a letter last year when they wanted our vote and told them we live in New York where taxes are very high expecially on Long Island but that's because of school taxes and yet our taxes don't increase as quickly as Atlantis does.

True they maintain the property well but its getting out of control now and something should be done.

Actually, I told my husband we should go down there when they have a budget vote. But we would need a good number of people to go down with us and that's where they got us - they know most of us won't be down there when the maintenance fees are voted on and raised - there's nobody there to protest Agree?

What can we do about this?

Robert. I applaud your efforts to come up with specific solutions to the Maintenance Fees. I agree that all owners who feel the increases are outrageous should direct a letter to the board with a copy to Mr. Kerzner and to send that letter just before the board meets annually. I would ask Mr.Kerzner to consider incorporating a bill that would allow US attornies to deal with US citizens purchasing at Harborside. I doubt that will happen. I would NOT encourage voicing an opinion upon check-in or you may very well find yourself with an undesirable unit view. I tried to find industry average for 5 star resorts on google but was unsuccessful. I believe Kerzner enterprises and Starwood both get a piece of administrative surplus from Maintenance Fees. I would like to quote the source but can't recall at this time. I very much doubt either of the above very much cares about our outrage. I am very happy to have Redweek which has enabled us to pay our fees annually through our rentals albeit without much of a profit. To buy resale in the Bahamas, add an approximate $2,000 closing cost to the Bahamian lawyer. US attorney not permitted. At some future point I know we will be forced to sell our units due to the fee escalations. I'm sure we are not the only ones. In the interim we do find Harborside to be the most beautiful place in the world and therefore pay handsomely to be there until such time as we can't. patriciag

Anyone going to the Harborside AGM? I'm looking to assign my vote by proxy to another owner, not leave it to a Starwood yes man.

I am a Harborside at Atlantis Phase 2 Owner. here's are some more issue(s)

Since 2004 our MF have risen from $1800 (I own a three bedroom lock off) to $3150. It is clear that the Directors of our Association are doing what is good for Starwood and Kerzner (developer). One director works for SW and the other works for Kerzner.

My view (after 8 years of ownership) is that the fractional ownerships are not what SVN is really selling...what they are selling is an HOA "trap"...they make a lot more money on HOA fees than selling TS.

Once someone is locked into a TS contract they'll use if for a few years and them try to sell...many did and the economy suffered in 2008-09. Concurrently the HOA fees rise to the point that the rental value is the same as the HOA fees, thus there is no equity in the unit...but the fractional owner can't "get out" unless they "sell"...consequently the owner is held hostage to an ownership, that if foreclosed upon, will drag their credit rating down.

The collective management fees for Harborside II now exceed $3.2 million a year. The total HOA fees are close to $20 million a year...$20 million a year to maintain a large apartment complex with people coming and going on a weekly basis. It is clearly outrageous.

As an example of the sheer audacity of these guys... the fees paid to Paradise Island Tourism Development Association at $52,475 are for a website owned by a third party marketing company. It does nothing except promote all Atlantis/Kerzner related properties and take reservations. Harborside is promoted among the other Atlantis properties, say 12% of the site. ...the company has no google ads (no costs), does not purchase any keywords.

So ...Who benefits by this gargantuan yearly fee for a simple website?

All the uncollected HOA fees, which are about $1 million, are charged back to us fractional owners. If a unit is foreclosed upon, when is the unit actually sold? No accounting for this...

but ...if a foreclosed unit is sold, are some of the proceeds used to make the HOA whole again for that fractional share's unpaid fees ..I think NOT. No accounting for any of this.

I'll bet SVN holds these foreclosed units in some sort of abeyance so the developer does not have to pay the pro-rata sure of the HOA on them. SVN simply passes on the unpaid HOA fees to the remaining owners, still generating their same outrageous management fees and kickbacks. There is no incentive to sell these foreclosed units, as their marketing department can continue selling "new" unsold fractional shares, pulling new owners into the abyss.

Any inquiry as to the nature of MF costs, if services are being bid out, or inquiries about what is actually delivered is met with stonewalling or deflections.

I receive unsolicited crap from TS resellers all the time. I ask how they found me and have been told that my ownership is public record. What needs to be done is to find out who the actual fractional owners are and recruit them the vote in a new board, who can then install a new management company.

So there's a lot of due diligence and stealth discovery that needs to occur. I believe this is the tip of a huge iceberg...with 20 properties, SVO is making 100's of millions of dollars by self dealing, kickbacks, etc.

Am speaking with a few lawyers about a class action suit against the Association as they have breached their fiduciary duty to the fractional owners. I would say HR 1 could benefit by coming on board.

I am a pit bull on a piece of raw liver when it comes to abuses like this....people who do bad things?...bad things happen to them....

Feel free to call and discuss

Henry Siegel 323.680.5411

Does everyone want a chuckle?? How about when the units are foreclosed the availability goes back to atlantis to rent as hotel units. We absorbed the MF but they get the unit. So we cant even find other weeks to book. Not to mention the way it is set up no one moves their units at the 12-10 month mark so the time the owners have to move units is useless. When availability does start to open up we are fighting with owners from places like vistana villages who pay a quarter of our MF. How does that make you feel? 1-800-vistana has heard an earful from me every year. Im sick and tired of this scam. I should have purchased Marriott. Its much easier to book and they dont "rape" you on the points conversion. You can pretty much get a full week at any of their hotels worldwide. Im sorry but converting my unit for 36K starpoints gets me 3 days at a sheraton hotel at some airport! What a waste.

Thank you for all the details on the Maintenance fees. My husband and I were thinking of purchasing this time share about 15 years ago. It did not feel right to my husband, so we did not purchase it. I was thinking I would purchase it on Redweek website. But I was concerned about the fees and I was wondering why everyone is selling. Now I know why... Thank you.

Availability has gotten much better it seems. Now that it’s all done in real time online I haven’t had much trouble. The fees are high but still less than it costs to get a hotel room there. Plus it rents well or at least for maint fee. If you can get a one bedroom free it’s not bad. I go a lot now

Just got notice that our maintenance fees are going up to 3388. I saw where you knew a way to get rid of it. Could you give me the name of a person I can contact to take action? I am an owner of Marriott timeshares and was hoping to have good news from them but apparently it is the one timeshare they do not want to deal with and helping you sell. Thank you so much, Brenda K Johnson.