Deeded vs. Right to use?

Call me dumb, but we own at the Beachboy and thought we were deeded owners. Yet, we see listings here as "Right to Use" and then were told today by another timeshare company that our points at the Beachboy were not really deeded to us (but are Right to Use). Can someone enlighten us on this?

melindag12 wrote:

Call me dumb, but we own at the Beachboy and thought we were deeded owners. Yet, we see listings here as "Right to Use" and then were told today by another timeshare company that our points at the Beachboy were not really deeded to us (but are Right to Use). Can someone enlighten us on this?

You should have been provided (upon purchase) with either a recorded deed or a "membership certificate" (the former is self explanatory, the latter being a "right to use" document). Which one of these documents do you possess?? What does it say????

If you don't have ANY documents in possession to refer to, call the resort's management company. Don't rely upon Internet answers, or reach any conclusions simply from viewing other listings. In particular, don't rely upon any verbal conversations with "other companies" --- if their lips are moving, they may very well be just guessing (or flat out lying). You need FACTS, not opinions. Call the resort, find out the management company involved, then call that management company directly for details on YOUR particular account.

Keep in mind that at some resorts there can be (and, in fact, there are) BOTH deeded ownerships AND "right to use" meberships co-existing within the very same facility at the very same time. As one specific example, at Eagle's Nest at South Lake Tahoe / Stateline, NV, some folks owned deeded weeks there BEFORE the place was bought by Perennial Vacation Club (which now offers ONLY "right to use" memberships). New ownership and new terms by PVC, however, does NOT change or supersede the fact that some folks owned deeded weeks at Eagle's Nest before the change in ownership ---and they still own them now, even though new PVC members can acquire ONLY a "right to use" membership.

In short summary, your answer may not be as obvious, simple or straightforward as you might think. You need to get on the phone and get facts and answers directly from your resorts' management company records --- not just from partially informed input (including mine) found out on the Internet (which can, unfortunately, sometimes be a real wealth of MIS-information). Any fool with a keyboard can offer an opinion, but you are in need of some FACTS, easily obtained with a phone call. Good luck.

Ken is correct that you should have some type of contract stating what type of ownership you have.

Deeded = you own the week outright including a recorded deed.

Right To Use = you don't own a deed but a right to use that week until a certain date in the future. All Mexican timeshares are RTUs.

Thanks for the advice. This gives us an idea of what to ask. Thanks again.

melindag12 wrote:

Call me dumb, but we own at the Beachboy and thought we were deeded owners. Yet, we see listings here as "Right to Use" and then were told today by another timeshare company that our points at the Beachboy were not really deeded to us (but are Right to Use). Can someone enlighten us on this?

Malinda, even with a deed your rights are questionable. We have a deed and found the hotel had rented out our timeshare without our knowledge or approval. When we tried to get information and namesd to talk to , we were told that information was privy, to whom???As a member of the timeshare owners assoc,you would think we would have access to board info and identification, no way. So don't be surprised. Even a deed does not give you security, judithp37

judithp37 has stated, quoated in pertinent part:

>>.... even with a deed your rights are questionable. We have a deed and found the hotel had rented out our timeshare without our knowledge or approval. When we tried to get information and namesd to talk to , we were told that information was privy, to whom??? As a member of the timeshare owners assoc,you would think we would have access to board info and identification, no way. So don't be surprised. Even a deed does not give you security << =======================================

With all due respect, that's nonsense. A properly prepared and lawfully recorded warranty deed with usage specific terms and conditions gives you *absolute and unquestionable* legal ownership and/or correction rights. Less protection with a quitclaim deed, but even a quitclaim deed is still legally strong if issued from and executed by a lawful grantor and properly recorded in appropriate county records. If you have a legally executed warranty deed, and what you have described is factually accurate, complete and correct (I'm wondering if all the facts are really presented here --- such as whether your "deed" was valid to begin with, ever properly recorded, whether maintenance fees were paid up and current at the time of your usage week, and/or whether your reservation (if a float week) was ever actually confirmed in the first place) --- then you should be talking to a lawyer (I'm NOT one, for the record), since this could be an illegal and actionable form of theft by the resort. Again though, I'm really wondering if you've really and accurately presented ALL of the relevant facts and information. It all sounds quite bizarre to me if you have a valid, recorded deed (....and a paid up account). Otherwise, the resort folks would have to be absolutely insance to have unlawfully done what you portray them as having done........

==================== It all sounds quite bizarre to me if you have a valid, recorded deed (....and a paid up account). Otherwise, the resort folks would have to be absolutely insance to have unlawfully done what you portray them as having done........[/Q..............Love that thought, agree bizarre...tell that to the man who slept in my bed the night before I got there. If our maintenance fees were not up to date, they would not have allowed us use of our timeshare, and rightfully so. Maintenance fees pay for improvements and taxes, so will never argue that issue. Deed is also solid. I required that they remove the resident of the timeshare deeded to us, they did so,that day after recleaning unit. We are trying to notify and talk to board because sometimes its not the residence that is the problem ,its the staff.Never was a float , are charter member, same residence forever. If not recified, this will be with an attorney. Yes, and never thought this would happen to us either.

judithp37 wrote:

Love that thought, agree bizarre...tell that to the man who slept in my bed the night before I got there. If our maintenance fees were not up to date, they would not have allowed us use of our timeshare, and rightfully so.

judith, was it part of your dated deeded week that the man slept in the bed the night before you arrived or did your deeded week start the day you arrived and the unit merely needed cleaning? Most resorts don't allow check-in until late afternoon on the day of arrival and you lose most of that day for cleaning.

I agree with Ken that all this sounds confusing, however you have an owner's right to the names, addresses and telephone numbers of all board members should you care to persue this further. You need to let the resort know this.

Judithp37 stated in pertinent part:

Re: >> We are trying to notify and talk to board because sometimes its not the residence that is the problem , it's the staff. << ======================================

O.K.......but since you already know exactly who and where your management company is, since they are the ones who send (and to whom you pay) your annual maintenance fees, and they have a known name, address and phone number, why are you even bothering with the HOA at this point?? This is clearly a matter which is the direct responsibility and which is under the direct control of the resort's management company.

On the surface at least, absent any clear presentation of any or all of the facts about your check-in dates / times, it sounds at first glance like some "enterprising" desk clerk may perhaps have been trying to "pocket" a few dollars by unlawfully renting out your unit "on the side" as if it was a vacant hotel room (assuming, of course, that such a clearly unlawful occupancy occured *DURING* (not just "right before") *YOUR OWN scheduled access dates and times*. This important detail is not at all clear from your posting.

Why waste time fooling around "trying to notify" the HOA ???? It's your business, but I must say that I'm a bit confused by such an indirect approach. If you have a case with all the the facts on your side, you should already be raising holy hell DIRECTLY with your resort's management company, in my personal opinion.

jayjay wrote:

judithp37 wrote:

Love that thought, agree bizarre...tell that to the man who slept in my bed the night before I got there. If our maintenance fees were not up to date, they would not have allowed us use of our timeshare, and rightfully so.

judith, was it part of your dated deeded week that the man slept in the bed the night before you arrived or did your deeded week start the day you arrived and the unit merely needed cleaning? Most resorts don't allow check-in until late afternoon on the day of arrival and you lose most of that day for cleaning.

I agree with Ken that all this sounds confusing, however you have an owner's right to the names, addresses and telephone numbers of all board members should you care to persue this further. You need to let the resort know this.

am doing so, Time share started Sat 4PM and after until Sat 9:30am.. We got in Sunday ,staff said timeshare taken and put us in another unit until we could talk to timeshare office when it opened Monday morning. They were very nice. Talked with timeshare office and required moving on Monday. I trust in our board, just request warning that if you have a solid lockin on a unit, you might want to double check to make sure this has not happened to you. I dread to think how many have had this happen and never have known. Always good to check. never dreamed this craziness would have to do with our timeshare..Thankyou, secure that this will be taken care of and never repeated at this Barclay for sure!!

This is highly unethical by the resort. You own that week/unit. They should have never rented it out to someone else even if you didn't intend to use it UNLESS you authorized them to do so.

I respectfully disagree with Ken that the HOA has no involvement in management of the resort. They have the right to fire the current management and hire another management team if they so choose. HOAs are there for the owners, not the management. The management is there to run the day to day activities of the resort, not to negate owner rights. This may have been an honest mistake, but I would certainly make the HOA board aware of what happened.

judithp37 wrote:

am doing so, Time share started Sat 4PM and after until Sat 9:30am.. We got in Sunday ,staff said timeshare taken and put us in another unit until we could talk to timeshare office when it opened Monday morning. They were very nice. Talked with timeshare office and required moving on Monday. I trust in our board, just request warning that if you have a solid lockin on a unit, you might want to double check to make sure this has not happened to you. I dread to think how many have had this happen and never have known. Always good to check. never dreamed this craziness would have to do with our timeshare..Thankyou, secure that this will be taken care of and never repeated at this Barclay for sure!!

jayjay has misquoted: >> I respectfully disagree with Ken that the HOA has no involvement in management of the resort. <<

I never said any such thing. What I DID say (and I stand by it and I will happily repeat it once again) is that the management company is the FIRST line of contact and responsibility in this matter and that their name, address and phone number is already known to the complainant. Personally, I'd be on them like a blanket before even bothering with the HOA and their changing members, in scattered multiple locations, available and responsive at their own convenience. That preferred (by me, anyhow) approach has in no way stated or remotely implied in ANY way that, as you badly misquoted me "the HOA has no involvement". That's neither true, nor at all resembling what I said. I'm inclined personally to go right straight after the first line of responsibility --- first and promptly --and that's the management company, plain and simple. To each his / her own approach, certainly, but please don't so grossly and inaccurately misrepresent my words.........

You have every right to disagree with anything I say, but you have NO right whatsoever to inaccurately attribute words to me and then disagree with what I never stated in the first place. I take personal exception and offense to such careless inattention to facts, accuracy and details.

judithp37 wrote:

Malinda, even with a deed your rights are questionable. We have a deed and found the hotel had rented out our timeshare without our knowledge or approval. WHEN WE TRIED TO GET INFORMATION AND NAMES TO TALK TO, WE WERE TOLD THAT INFORMATION WAS PRIVVY, TO WHOM?? As a member of the timeshare owners assoc,you would think we would have access to board info and identification, no way. So don't be surprised. Even a deed does not give you security, judithp37

I was referring to her statement in bold black above. She couldn't even get info concerning HOA names, addresses and phone numbers. Again, the board needs to know about this fiasco and how the management of this resort should be held responsible.

ken1193 wrote:

Why waste time fooling around "trying to notify" the HOA ???? It's your business, but I must say that I'm a bit confused by such an indirect approach. If you have a case with all the the facts on your side, you should already be raising holy hell DIRECTLY with your resort's management company, in my personal opinion.

.

I was going by YOUR statement above and I stand by my advice that she should contact the HOA. Management evidently did nothing to rectify her situation. Surely there was management in the office the day she checked in. They should have corrected the situation right then and there.

I'm sorry that you can't tolerate someone 'RESPECTFULLY DISAGREEING' with any statement you make. This is a forum with many different views, advice and suggestions and you will get people that will disagree with your advice on occasion. That's just the way internet forums are.

Re: >> I'm sorry that you can't tolerate someone 'RESPECTFULLY DISAGREEING' with any statement you make.<< =======================================

You're way off base.....again. One can't "respectfully disagree" with what was never stated in the first place. The ONLY thing I can't tolerate is being inaccurately represented or badly misquoted, an art at which you are clearly, consistently and repeatedly a true master here on these RedWeek forums. I try to offer and ALWAYS welcome intelligent discourse and exchange, certainly including informed disagreement, but frankly I find your repeated misquotes, inaccuracies and inattention to detail to be more than just a little bit frustrating and irritating, a personal opinion to which I am entitled and which I am glad to openly articulate.

You come across as a rather harsh person in your advice many times such as the way you accused the lady of not being sure of why they rented her unit at that resort. You accused her of not having factual information and quoted that you didn't understand why she didn't raise holy hell with the management and questioned why she wanted to get the HOA involved.

I always try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and I ask questions when I'm not sure of what they mean instead of using accusatory language such as you use many times.

You told one member that there were NO wedding planners at any timeshare resorts (point blank) and she defied you by proving that they had already attended such a wedding in Mexico (there are wedding planners at some resorts in Mexico, I checked it out myself).

So while we're at it why don't YOU get YOUR FACTS straight before posting nonfactual information? You could have googled to find out that there are, in fact, wedding planners at many timeshare resorts.

BTW, people can respectfully disagree with each other. Evidently you never learned to do so.

ken1193 wrote:

You're way off base.....again. One can't "respectfully disagree" with what was never stated in the first place. The ONLY thing I can't tolerate is being inaccurately represented or badly misquoted, an art at which you are clearly, consistently and repeatedly a true master here on these RedWeek forums. I try to offer and ALWAYS welcome intelligent discourse and exchange, certainly including informed disagreement, but frankly I find your repeated misquotes, inaccuracies and inattention to detail to be more than just a little bit frustrating and irritating, a personal opinion to which I am entitled and which I am glad to openly articulate.

jayjay, you just can't seem to EVER accurately recreate, represent or repeat ANY statement I make. That's o.k. -- perhaps it's just a literacy issue of some sort. In any case, feel free to have the last word and have a good 4th of July holiday.

LOL, yes I MUST be totally illiterate ... pardon my ignorance. Have a great 4th as I will.

ken1193 wrote:

jayjay, you just can't seem to EVER recreate ANY statement I make accurately. That's o.k. -- perhaps it's a literacy issue of some sort. In any case, feel free to have the last word and have a good 4th of July holiday.

P.S. People come here to learn ... not to be scolded because they don't understand the many complexities of timesharing. We (you, me and others) are here to try to help them understand those many complexities, answer questions and try to help solve problems related to timesharing. That's why we're here. You may respectfully disagree with me as much as you wish. I don't take offense at differences of opinion.

dear jayjay and ken...no war of the worlds. you both have given sound and supportive imput.I appreciate it and take no offense. go back to your corners and shake hands. you all are of great worth