HGVC - Is my understanding correct?

I have been investigating timeshares for a while. Seems there are a few trends:

1) They are overly complex

2) Once in, you can't get out - people often end up dumping them just to free themselves from the annual maintenance fees.

I'm currently trying to understand HGVC, it 'seems' fairly simple.

You are basically buying points, you may have a deed in some property somewhere but it is really about the points.

They have gold/platinum weeks. Does it matter if you have a gold or platinum deed on a property? My guess is no, if you have the points accumulated you can use them however you want. Cash them in on any property and any weeks.

Is my understanding correct?

I have been looking at sold eBay listings to get an idea of what the points sell for - the 15 auctions I analyzed the average price was 1.3 cents per point. The only thing that seems to really vary, is the maintenance costs.

Different resorts seem to have different maintenance costs per point you are earning.

Anything you can share with me regarding HGVC, things to watch out for?

robg22 wrote:

Anything you can share with me regarding HGVC, things to watch out for?

Your observations and understandings are largely correct and spot on. However, in regard to item 2), it is worthy of note that some resorts and systems (e.g. Wyndham's "Ovation" program) currently offer a simple and easy exit ramp from ownership via "deedback", but deedback acceptance is still an exception to the rule. Acquisition of timeshare ownership is always easier than parting with the ownership later. Btw, I don't care at all for Wyndham, so I'm not certainly "peddling" their brand, merely citing a specific "deedback" option example.

HGVC is a good system. I don't personally own within HGVC (we now prefer to own and use deeded fixed weeks in specific locations), but I certainly know satisfied people who own within HGVC. The only complaints I ever seem to hear is that HGVC is reportedly a bit behind the curve in keeping their computer / reservation system functionality "up to speed", but that minor complaint is certainly not a show stopper.

One cautionary observation about points, no matter whose system or points are involved. Ignore the marketing buzz words like VIP, platinum, gold, etc. It is much more important to understand and acknowledge that SPACE AVAILABILITY ALWAYS RULES ALL. No matter how many points you may have, there must obviously be availability where (and when) you want to visit in order to utilize those points. In the timeshare world, regardless of the system or "chain", there are NO guarantees of space availability except by owning specific deeded fixed unit / weeks. Points certainly offer much more flexibility and options, but also require more advance planning in order to get where you want to go, when you want to go there.

Good on 'ya for doing your homework in advance. Far too may people "buy now, think later". I tip my cap to you for spending the time and exerting the effort to become an informed consumer BEFORE "buying in" to ANY timeshare product or system. Good luck!

ken1193 wrote:

Good on 'ya for doing your homework in advance. Far too may people "buy now, think later". I tip my cap to you for spending the time and exerting the effort to become an informed consumer BEFORE "buying in" to ANY timeshare product or system. Good luck!

Thanks for the comments and feedback. I have spent a few more hours researching things and I seem to have come across a scam on eBay.

I am seeing lots of timeshare listings, selling for $1 on eBay. I was quite excited to find one that I was very interested in, for only $1 !!

Then I learned of ROFR and why would a resort let one of their units sell for $1 - they would buy it back (especially the nicer resorts). It did not take much work on eBay to figure out what the scam must be.

Sellers list timeshares for $1.00 - and from the looks of it sell many of them at that price. They have transfer fees and whatever other fees they may come up with that must be paid at the close of the auction.

My assumption is they collect the fees and then tell the buyers that the resort exercised the ROFR, so the timeshare is not available - pocketing the advance transfer fees.

So, scams aside... how low is too low? At what price point will the resorts not accept the sale and buy it back themselves?

Seems to be a lot of games in this industry. If an owner calls the resorts many will not take the property back at any price, but if that seller then found a buyer willing to take it for $1 would they step in a take it away from the buyer?

The waters of the timeshare industry are indeed murky, inhabited by many assorted parasites and opportunists. The wary survive --- sharks eat the rest. You are certainly wise to keep an eye open for scams, but also need not see the bogeyman behind *every* bush.

First, not all systems even possess or exercise ROFR (right of first refusal) in the first place. Hyatt does, Marriott does, HGVC does. Wyndham does not, Diamond does not. Independent resorts (those not affiliated with any corporate "chain") do not possess or exercise ROFR.

Second, where ROFR exists (again, that right must ALREADY exist within governing documents to ever be exercised at all), there is frankly little or no discernible consistency in its' exercise. There is just no way to know when a system might be looking to recover additional inventory, nor what their ROFR dollar threshold might be at any given time. There are always discussions on various timeshare sites about specific properties and numbers, but no consistent patterns seem to emerge. It's a craps shoot, plainly and simply stated.

There are far too many explanations for all the $1 timeshare offerings ALWAYS found on eBay to list here. Understand that there are numerous "companies" (e.g. GroupWise, et al), often referred to as PostCard Companies (PCC's) which collect serious money (generally a few thousand dollars) from owners desperate to get out of their ownership but unable or unwilling to exert the effort on their own to do so. Under a Power of Attorney granted to them from such desperate owners, the PCC then "dumps" the timeshare for a buck on eBay. The PCC ALREADY pocketed a few thousand dollars; they don't really care what it sells for. Also, many PCC's also get a "piece" of the closing costs from the (ahem) "closely affiliated" entity they work with for transfers --- just more "gravy". Many other scenarios as well, including many completely legitimate but desperate owners who just want "out" ASAP.

Systems have their own mandatory and unavoidable "transfer fees", regardless of seller or buyer involved. Hyatt's is $599 per deed, Wyndham's is $299 per deed, don't know Marriott or HGVC fee. Closers often add their own gratuitous "processing" or "escrow" fees as well. Closings rarely cost less than about $350, but there are exceptions. Some PCC's / sellers will even absorb all closing costs in order to dump "dog" intervals. Again, PCC's ALREADY pocketed a few grand before their listing was ever posted; everything additional is gravy.

Units selling for $1 (or more specifically, being listed for $1) are not necessarily a scam. In addition to the PCC's that Ken mentioned above, many owners are trying to dump their units just to avoid paying maintenance fees and the accompanying costs of traveling to the timeshare.

Now you can pick up a unit for $1 cleanly and legally. Just be prepared to pay out a lot of money in maintenance fees each year. Your best bet would be to examine your personal travel needs and circumstances and then decide if owning a timeshare is in your personal best interests.

And again, $1 timeshares are not necessarily scams. There are many happy timeshare owners who bought their units for $1 (or even free) and are thoroughly enjoying what they have.

Unfortunately the deal I excited to find on eBay - is a scam. Some Google searches shows the seller has been around for years scamming under different names. There is mention of it on several timeshare sites.

They accept the fees and auction amount (usually they sell at $1 but sometimes some of their listings go for a few thousand). Insist the funds are paid by American Express (no other cards for some reason), bank wire, check or cashiers check.

They thing string the buyer along for long enough that they can't leave negative feedback.

I'll keep my eye out on eBay and if a deal ever comes up, that is not being marketed by a scam operator ( why can't eBay shut these guys down ?!?! ) I'll take a chance.

robg22 wrote:

Unfortunately the deal I excited to find on eBay - is a scam. Some Google searches shows the seller has been around for years scamming under different names. There is mention of it on several timeshare sites.

They accept the fees and auction amount (usually they sell at $1 but sometimes some of their listings go for a few thousand). Insist the funds are paid by American Express (no other cards for some reason), bank wire, check or cashiers check.

They thing string the buyer along for long enough that they can't leave negative feedback.

I'll keep my eye out on eBay and if a deal ever comes up, that is not being marketed by a scam operator ( why can't eBay shut these guys down ?!?! ) I'll take a chance.

Virtually all resale timeshare transactions (including smooth and legitimate transactions and closings) take longer to complete from start to finish than the time period which eBay allows for providing negative feedback. This has long been a concern and complaint from people (among whom I will never be numbered) who choose to get involved with eBay timeshare listings.

Personally, I would never even consider conducting resale timeshare business involving eBay listings. There are just too many incomplete and / or factually inaccurate listings, too many shady and / or careless resellers and too many "very closely affiliated" transfer entities of questionable honesty and dubious competence there for my liking. YMMV.

I suggest monitoring listings on RedWeek.com and Timeshare Users Group (http://www.tug2.net). Both sites are good at discovering (and promptly booting) scammers --- unlike eBay and / or Craigslist. If you limit your search to eBay in search of a $1 timeshare worth even owning at all, you will spend a lot of time attempting to verify listing facts and details and dealing with assorted careless resellers and /or scammers, often never actually obtaining the facts or answers or clarifications you seek. It's your prerogative to look only at "the bottom of the barrel" for resale timeshare listings. but keep in mind that in many instances "you get what you pay for". Be smart and be cautious. Good luck!