Manhattan Club Lawsuit

...and I realized I would be passing my problem along to someone else.

deborahs528 wrote:

I looked into donating and it is no easy matter to achieve, which is why I didn't do it.

cookiel7 wrote:

Why on earth would NY accept a donation where they would be responsible to pay maintenance fees for a week of lodging up to $3K a week. A nice fantasy.

tonya420 wrote:

Maybe some one should contact De Blasio administration to talk about his ending homelessness his new initiative

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/11/de-blasio-to-announce-3-billion-homeless-plan.html

Good publicity!

I sent the following letter to the judge in late December. Please feel free to copy such arts of it which are relevant to you. I have redacted personally identifying information.

Justice Eileen Rakower, Supreme Court of the State of New York 71 Thomas St. Part 15 New York, New York 10013

Your Honour,

Re: Schneiderman v. Eichner. Case Number 451536/2014

I write as a disaffected timeshare owner of the Manhattan Club. The membership numbers for my wife and myself are xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The Deed of Indenditure for my share is datedxxxxxxxx 1999. We purchased Unit #xxxxxxxx on xxxxx, 1999 for US$21,040.00 (plus an additional US$86 New York State Real Estate Transfer Tax.)

We bought what was called a “Full Flex” ownership interest. That means we are entitled to a total of 7 nights per year, which are flexible, with blackout dates of 12/30, 12/31, and 1/1. The contract states we are entitled to reserve as many as 3 weekends, but cannot exceed my 7 allotted nights in total. All weekends booked must consist of at least 2 nights: a Friday and a Saturday or a Saturday and a Sunday. Our contract states that whilst we are entitled to 3 weekends, we are neither required nor guaranteed to get all 3.

The unit is a 1 bedroom/2 bathroom unit that sleeps up to 4 adults. It includes a master bedroom with an ensuite bathroom, a living room with a pull out sleeper sofa bed, a second bathroom, and a ‘kitchenette’ containing sink, mini refrigerator, microwave, dishwasher and dishes, glassware and cutlery for a service of 4 guests.

I have two concerns: a) Not being able to use our entitlements b) The rapidly escalating annual maintenance charge.

Not being able to use my entitlements

In the 16 years since we purchased our unit, almost every time we tried to reserve a room we were told a room was not available on the dates we requested. When I queried this with the reservations team, I was usually told owners usually reserved the rooms one year in advance and I was too late. Twelve months is the maximum lead time allowed by the Club, and, if what the reservations agents said is true, is also, in practice, the minimum lead time.

I am a medical practitioner xxxxxxxxxxxx. Because of my professional commitments, it is impossible for me to schedule vacations 12 months in advance; I usually can plan and book 4–6 months ahead.

It has always been a fight to get to use our nights – one that we often lost.

Of the over 112 nights to which we were entitled between 1999 and 2015 inclusive, we have personally used perhaps 20, friends have used perhaps 30 and our daughter, [name], about 20.

[name] lived in New York from 20xx–20xx and also struggled to get her preferred dates, often only receiving confirmation in the final weeks or days before her requested dates,.

In summary, we have not been able to use approximately 30% of our entitlements.

It was especially galling then, when I was told no rooms were available for us to book on the dates we requested, to see on the Internet those same nights were being offered direct to the public!

When I pointed this out to the Club, I was told that these were unsold timeshare nights still held by the organisation. That of course completely stymied me as I had no way of checking the veracity of those statements, but in an announcement on July 26th, 2014, of a court order preventing further Manhattan Club timeshare sales, New York’s Attorney-General, Eric T. Schneiderman, stated that “About 14,000 people currently own timeshares in the hotel’s 286 suites .”

We were told that 2 weeks for each suite, per year, were withheld from booking to allow annual maintenance. That suggests a maximum of 14,300 saleable weeks – 50 x 286.

We were also told that the minimum holding available for purchase was 7 nights. If the Attorney-General’s figures are correct, ie, that there are 14,000 owners, then the time shares are fully sold. (14,000 owners holding a minimum of 7 nights each.) Hence there should be no nights available for sales direct to the public (ie, to non-timeshare owners) via tourist agencies and hotel booking services, or from the Club direct.

However, even a cursory internet search reveals multiple advertisements offering accommodation at the Manhattan Club direct to the public.

If the above figures are correct, the inescapable conclusion is that owners are being denied access to the nights they own, so that the Manhattan Club can sell those nights direct.

That smells of fraud.

Rapidly escalating annual fees.

The cost for the ‘privilege’ of owning our seven nights (the annual maintenance charges) escalated substantially year on year, and now roughly equates to the cost of staying for 5 to 7 nights in a 4-star New York City hotel.

YEAR CHARGE (USD) 2007 $1,919.00 2008 $2,003.00 2009 $2,123.00 2010 $2,180.72 2011 $2,265.00 2012 $2,389.78 2013 $2,413.04 2014 $2,584.72 2015 $2,703.56

The 2015 fee, multiplied by 14,000 owners, is in total $35,000,000 - an inordinately high figure for the maintenance charges for a 286 suite, 4 star hotel, even allowing for a profit factor for the management company.

That smells of price gouging.

I gather from the Manhattan Club Lawsuit pages on www.redweek.com that many, many Manhattan Club timeshare owners share these concerns. As of today there are 89 pages of posts on the Manhattan Club Lawsuit forum from disaffected owners. I appreciate that there are significant technical points of commercial law in matters like Schneiderman v. Eichner, but I hope that letters like this one will encourage you to consider equity in your deliberations.

I am happy to provide any further information you request.

Yours sincerely,

A very good letter however the number of owners can be misleading in deterring number of weeks sold. As with me, I am a every other year owner, the number of owners for a week doubles. The results of this is that there are unsold weeks.

In some of the letters that people are sending to Judge Rakower contain arguments that are not convincing or valid.

One is the math of 14,000 X 52. There are sooooo many different plans that it makes the ownership math and TMC capacity impossible to calculate. Some owners have every even or odd year, some have no weekends, some have every three years and so on. One of the cases was based on this erroneous assumption and was dismissed by the judge a few years ago. (the latest estimate is 18,000+ owners) The MC lawyers also showed flaws/contradictions in the complainant's SPECIFIC data on whether or not they were in good standing at the time of reservation request, and other issues/weaknesses that the lawyers found in the specifics of the several complainants in THAT case.

The other argument that: '....one can get a hotel room in NYC for far less than $2,000+/week, therefore cost is outrageous and fraudulent'... is also flawed. If one searches for SUITES WITH KITCHEN that sleeps 4, you'll find that $300-400/night is about the going rate. So be careful in your arguments in the letter.

Over the holiday a relative got into TMC for one night via an owner's posting on this discussion board. They needed one more night at TMC and got it through Hotels.com....but .... it... was.... $600+.

Clearly there is a lot wrong, criminal, fraudulent, sleazy, with the TMC under the Eichner regime, but be careful in making your case, check the facts and assumptions that you use so that you present a strong, unassailable argument.

I think this was a great letter, and if the judge reads all the complaints, and realizes that TMC is hiding behind their unscrupulous selling techniques, he will see how the owners have been denied in using their units. The math does add up only because, the maintenance fees do not justify the costs to operate the Manhattan Club. The availability of renting our units to the public was much more profitable to the TMC management, since the money went directly into their pockets. They not only received our owner maintenance fees, but were able to collect from the general public by aggressive advertising, additional monies for the same unit. I hope that more owners will take a more positive attitude towards protecting their investment, and not allow the management to placate them with incentives that were not real.

Hi! Has the Manhattan Club offered to buy our property back for $1? I have them pestering me for maintenance fees...

flaviat2 wrote:

Hi! Has the Manhattan Club offered to buy our property back for $1? I have them pestering me for maintenance fees...

I "sold" one back to TMC June 2014 for $100 which I haven't received because the investigation started and they are now forbidden to complete any sales per the NYAG, so my situation is in limbo.

I don't think they generally offer, I asked, but while the investigation is in place, they can't do anything, offer or buy back.

The other thing is, they have first right of refusal if you wanted to try to sell it on the open market.

So its a wait and see scenario.

The idea of giving it to the City of New York for homeless shelter is a great idea. If they are only made to buy back the timeshare they scammed us into buying is sold back to them for $1 or $100 even $1000 I'd donate it to the City for homeless families hands down.

That is a great suggestion. Can anyone find out if we can in fact do that?

Thanks for suggestion.

Here is an example of what really ticks me off. We have trouble booking rooms months in advance and I get a Jetsetter email offering rooms as low as $199 per night during the week. Looks like almost every day through April is available. Very frustrating.

http://www.jetsetter.com/hotels/new-york-city/new-york/7569/the-manhattan-club?nm=Search-TopNav&type=Dropdown&source=TopNav-nofollow

Is the Manhattan Club doing business on a national basis? If so, is it subject to interstate commercial regulation under the FTC or other federal overseers.

Has anyone looked into this and found out if a Federal Class Action Suit on behalf of th owners is possible.

Steve

Only because of the annual costs are so high with this club + almost impossible to book a accommodation.. I wonder if people wont win the case.. I wonder why it takes so long to get any progress on this too. Sorry about this message.. This 'giving to homeless' -thing sounded so good and hope there's media interested in the case too for real.. Some pressure might work, and there's whole bunch I you guys giving that pressure... No business can lose their reputation for good, its their cup of tea to resolve issues. Finally you guys win anyway if you keep doing.. Giving pressure.

I have be writing about what happened to me with different club and I don't understand the scenario of these clubs. My story goes so beyond though so I guess I do understand also what's the name of the game with TMC.

I'm Finnish myself bought a club membership in the Bahamas 2009 while travelling with my children. If I just knew and weren't totally mislead... I just don't understand why they picked me to scam there because it should be sold only to Americans and Canadians, not Europeans.

I do wonder also that national point on this. There's always business rules and different laws around the world.

My case is about rhc ( if people get curious), and my style to write about my experience might sound very weird. Well, I'm not english speaking person, that's one point and.. Its so odd.. Altogether with FNTC and FNG (first names group). A long and very strange story.

I encourage people to keep fighting. I do it myself too by never stop writing, and harassing that way... There's tons of my writings about my situation, still no one seems to care. Odd that too. But you guys are lucky ones, because you share and keep fighting together! I just dont understand what is wrong in States to get any justice on these issues! Why it has to take so much before anything starts happening?

Good luck!

i cannot, in my wildest dream, consider giving away (even for $100) my property to a thieving, lying, scheming, fraudulent so-called "real estate mogul. he should dine with bernie madoff................i'll even supply the stale hot dogs. in fact, they would make fine cell mates.

deborahs528 wrote:

flaviat2 wrote:

Hi! Has the Manhattan Club offered to buy our property back for $1? I have them pestering me for maintenance fees...

I "sold" one back to TMC June 2014 for $100 which I haven't received because the investigation started and they are now forbidden to complete any sales per the NYAG, so my situation is in limbo.

I don't think they generally offer, I asked, but while the investigation is in place, they can't do anything, offer or buy back.

The other thing is, they have first right of refusal if you wanted to try to sell it on the open market.

So its a wait and see scenario.

the manhattan club did in fact do business locally, nationally and internationally BIG TIME....................TAKE IT FROM THERE.

stephena169 wrote:

Is the Manhattan Club doing business on a national basis? If so, is it subject to interstate commercial regulation under the FTC or other federal overseers.

Has anyone looked into this and found out if a Federal Class Action Suit on behalf of th owners is possible.

Steve

I hope people understand how difficult it is with foreign language + all the violence RHC did in my case. All ignore they did. I was stolen big money by rhc.

I do also understand the frustration with you guys and see how difficult its even with you in your own country, and own language. Plus you know the regulation, the laws there. It seems that these systems like many clubs seem to circulate base on illegal business if its similar with other clubs and systems I got into with this odd case of mine.

Only tax frauds on these are not legal in many countries when its about tax haven business.

Sorry to speak off topic on this thread. I'm not a victim of TMC but another one. But I notice similarities like over priced product, 'double selling' -issue etc..

All of us have particular things going on in our lives that govern the decisions we make. I did not buy or want these timeshares but inherited them, and am in no position to pay over 6 grand a year of escalating fees, nor do I want to spend 2 weeks a year in the city. So getting rid of one for $100 is what made financial sense for us. Good for you that you can afford hold on to yours, but please don't judge us who don't hold share your situation/feelings or who aren't in the same fortunate financial situation as you.

chrisv126 wrote:

i cannot, in my wildest dream, consider giving away (even for $100) my property to a thieving, lying, scheming, fraudulent so-called "real estate mogul. he should dine with bernie madoff................i'll even supply the stale hot dogs. in fact, they would make fine cell mates.

deborahs528 wrote:

flaviat2 wrote:

Hi! Has the Manhattan Club offered to buy our property back for $1? I have them pestering me for maintenance fees...

I "sold" one back to TMC June 2014 for $100 which I haven't received because the investigation started and they are now forbidden to complete any sales per the NYAG, so my situation is in limbo.

I don't think they generally offer, I asked, but while the investigation is in place, they can't do anything, offer or buy back.

The other thing is, they have first right of refusal if you wanted to try to sell it on the open market.

So its a wait and see scenario.

Your email kicked back several times please send me valid or alternate address

Thank you,

alexc100 wrote:

MC owners opened a lawsuite / class action in regards to the MC resrvations.

Everyone who is inerested to join the class action please contact me at alexcrystal22@gmail.com

You will be asked to fill out the Survey and send it or email the lawyer's office. It is urgent! Regards, Alex

deborah528, it wasn't my intention to offend others regarding their financial positions concerning ownership of manhattan club shares, regardless of how they were acquired........purchase of inheritance. i respect your actions; my main point is not to help fatten eichner's already bursting money bags. don't pay your exorbitant maintenance (yes, simply stop paying) or dispose of this valuable property YET.....ESPECIALLY DON'T GIVE IT TO EICHNER. try to await the results of this thief's trial. we owners MIGHT find ourselves in a more satisfactory position, financially and otherwise depending upon the trial's outcome and stipulations. my advice here is by no means expert, simply what i have decided to do myself for the time being. i pass it on to you for your consideration..

pax

chris

About maintenance fees. I also see the frustration because those fees go so high. What those increases base on? Consumer Price Index..? They can't increase those fees howsoever.. They need to follow always some regulation. I dont know about in States, and if TMC follows such rules, but its odd how much they are able to rise up the fees.

Chris, I wasn't offended, but sharing my perspective and experience. Like the lady who couldn't write a letter from scratch to the judge, because her time and effort is going into helping her husband during three months of a health crisis, we all make our decisions based upon what is going on in our lives.

Since I hope and trust this will eventually work out for the owners of TMC, that is why I held onto one of the timeshares....as far as the other, my hope is that since the sale of the one timeshare it isn't complete/final, that "when" we have a favorable outcome, I still may be able to benefit, and that Eichner will be accountable in that regard. In the meantime I don't pay the fees on the one and on the other I do and continue to enjoy it.

My intention is not to help Eichner in any way, but to do what I need to, to survive and continue to move on and live my life without being consumed by this. And also do what I can to contribute/and support the efforts of this forum and the effort of the owners to get this resolved, i.e. keeping informed, and writing the AG and the Judge.

No one is a victim unless they choose to be. Bad things happen in life.

Be well, deborah

chrisv126 wrote:

deborah528, it wasn't my intention to offend others regarding their financial positions concerning ownership of manhattan club shares, regardless of how they were acquired........purchase of inheritance. i respect your actions; my main point is not to help fatten eichner's already bursting money bags. don't pay your exorbitant maintenance (yes, simply stop paying) or dispose of this valuable property YET.....ESPECIALLY DON'T GIVE IT TO EICHNER. try to await the results of this thief's trial. we owners MIGHT find ourselves in a more satisfactory position, financially and otherwise depending upon the trial's outcome and stipulations. my advice here is by no means expert, simply what i have decided to do myself for the time being. i pass it on to you for your consideration..

pax

chris

In reply to your message: My understanding from keeping up with the MC scam Mr. Eichner was not using any index to increase the maintenance fees. He was channeling money to private accounts. with dummies employees.