Manhattan Club Lawsuit

we must direct Judge Rakower's attention to this redweek.com forum. it will give her more collective insight concerning the financial and other distresses owners are facing because of our ownership in THE MANHATTAN CLUB, including the fact that our heirs will be facing the same issues when the time comes, since i understand that we have "forever" deeds: like rare diseases, they seem never to cease to haunt us.

pax for all of our holidays.

keep in touch.

chris

I mailed my letter today, with my version of the typical complaints; sales fraud, very difficult access, excessive fees, etc. I asked for my money back from TMC, lower fees, easier access and/or a buy out at a 'reasonable' price, based on our purchases prices. That said, i know she may not pay any attention to these details. I just felt better offering remedies I can live with. I also mentioned 'just delayed is justice denied', saying we are all stuck paying or risking our credit pending an outcome that enables us to get out.

I bought 7 nights, no weekends, in 2000 for $21,740.00. The room was sold for 52 weeks which totals at least $1,200,000.00 per unit for The Manhattan Club. The units are 600 to 700 sq. ft. Pretty pricey for the year 2000. Maintenance in 2000-01 was $595.00. Today it is $2413.04. That means I pay $379.00 per night to stay in a room I own. For that amount I can easily get a 5 star hotel online. (MC is 4 star) and I am not out $21, 740. Monthly maintenance is $11, 370.00 per 650 sq. ft unit!!! I hope the court knows what OUTRAGEOUS means. The Manhattan Club is in one of the most expensive real estate markets in Manhattan and our suite is worthless!!

Hi Chris,

I and a small group of owners have tried unsuccessfully to get the list of TMC owners for a year. The Manhattan Club list every TMC single owner on ACRIS, the New York City Official listing of real estate, as having the Manhattan Club address. We have tried hiring an outside firm to do data mining and possibly find TMC owners that way. Nothing has worked. The real reason The Manhattan Club has refused to release the list of owners, even to the Attorney General of New York State himself, is that the actual number of TMC is much, much higher than they report. The fact that the Attorney General after a year long investigation cannot get a list of TMC owners is chilling. Every week I get an email from a TMC owner who just heard about the investigation. In a court case in 2012 TMC in court documents stated the number of TMC owners was 18, 271 not the flattering and less incriminating 14,000+ they always state. The Manhattan Club has 286 rooms. 10% of those rooms are not available to TMC owners because they belong to BlueGreen Timeshares. TMC has agreements with Disney vacations and RCI for rooms. TMC has room rental listings on hotels.com, and other internet sites. Do the math. One of TMC's many fraudulent practices is selling rooms and timeshares they don't have. Once the real number of Manhattan Club owners is known TMC knows somebody is going to jail. That is why they are fighting so hard to keep that number a secret. It will take a court order and threats of imprisonment to get this information. TMC does not care about fines. They have our money to pay court fines.

How do I give you my name and address without posting it here? Pat

I sent my letter to the Justice the other day.

Someone asked the other day about paying maintenance fees. I would never NOT pay a maintenance fee. It can affect your credit and it harms all those owners who do pay their fees. I know it's been a long time that we've been dealing with this. What if there is no settlement? We have no way of knowing what the outcome will be.

MY OPINION ONLY!!!!!!!!!! NOT PAYING MAINTENANCE FEES DOES NOT AFFECT CREDIT RATING. NOT PAYING MAINTENANCE AFFECTS ONLY EICHNER, NOT OTHER OWNERS. " What if there is no settlement? We have no way of knowing what the outcome will be.'...............and you paid your maintenance fee for NOTHING. again, i'd rather withhold payment (it really hurts no one but the thief, ian bruce eichner) and you're stuck with the current finality of the unresolved issue, and your quote: We have no way of knowing what the outcome will be.[i sent my letter to Her Honor yesterday. forgetting this ugly mess for the time being..............................,

PAX, PAX, PAX AND GOOD HEALTH TO YOU AND FAMILY (AND TO ALL OTHER OWNERS AND THEIR FAMILIES) DURING THIS FESTIVE ANY JOYFUL SEASON, WHATEVER YOUR BELIEFS MAY BE!............maybe even eichner can use some of these good wishes to help him dissolve his SCROOGE STANCE and become a nice person. [Q=laurah136] I sent my letter to the Justice the other day.

keep in touch.

chris

Someone asked the other day about paying maintenance fees. I would never NOT pay a maintenance fee. It can affect your credit and it harms all those owners who do pay their fees. I know it's been a long time that we've been dealing with this. What if there is no settlement? We have no way of knowing what the outcome will be.

I am not telling anyone to pay the maintenance fee or not, but not paying DOES affect the owners who pay the fee. Look at any budget for the MC for the last few years (and probably before that). In the 2015 budget there are two items under Sch B that talk about bad debts and owner owned intervals. The first is a reserve for Owner Owned Intervals which refer to the property taxes and fees associated with weeks acquirted by the Association through Deed Backs and foreclosures. That expense is $1,073,088. The second is a reserve for Bad Debts which is a charge for owners who are delinquent in paying their timeshare charges and real estate taxes. That reserve is $2,000,000. That's over $3 million in fees and taxes that Eichner can have all the other owners pay for him. The non-paying owners fees are part of the $2 million.

If someone cannot get any time in the MC I really don't blame them for not paying their fee. We have been able to get time although, like everyone else, we have to reserve months in advance. But since the investigation by the AG the time has been more available. Funny how that worked out.

I will be sending my letter to the judge on this case over the holidays. I encourage everyone to do the same and contact any owners who may not be following this board to send a letter also. May all of you have a very Happy Holiday.

eichner can't have "other owners pay" if no one pays maintenance....which may be the way to go. in reality, none of us knows which way to go since we have no "database" or knowledge of what to do from reliable sources including the nysag, eric schneiderman, who's not offering us anything but basically................the case is proceeding. really, all for all we know the case may still be stagnating in the investigation/information stage. so, dear fellow owners, we have 2 very obvious choices: pay or not pay maintenance.

pax.

chris

robertp336 wrote:

I am not telling anyone to pay the maintenance fee or not, but not paying DOES affect the owners who pay the fee. Look at any budget for the MC for the last few years (and probably before that). In the 2015 budget there are two items under Sch B that talk about bad debts and owner owned intervals. The first is a reserve for Owner Owned Intervals which refer to the property taxes and fees associated with weeks acquirted by the Association through Deed Backs and foreclosures. That expense is $1,073,088. The second is a reserve for Bad Debts which is a charge for owners who are delinquent in paying their timeshare charges and real estate taxes. That reserve is $2,000,000. That's over $3 million in fees and taxes that Eichner can have all the other owners pay for him. The non-paying owners fees are part of the $2 million.

If someone cannot get any time in the MC I really don't blame them for not paying their fee. We have been able to get time although, like everyone else, we have to reserve months in advance. But since the investigation by the AG the time has been more available. Funny how that worked out.

I will be sending my letter to the judge on this case over the holidays. I encourage everyone to do the same and contact any owners who may not be following this board to send a letter also. May all of you have a very Happy Holiday.

THE REALITY IS IF WE DO NOT PAY OUR MAINTENANCE FEES THE DEBT INCURRED IS EICHNER'S NOT OURS. IF WE CONTINUE TO NOT PAY HE WILL HAVE TO COME TO SOME RESOLVE AS TO HOW TO PAY THE COST TO OPERATE THE MANHATTAN CLUB. IF WE PAY THE FEES, AND COURT RULES IN HIS FAVOR, WE ARE OUT THE MONEY. THEN WHAT? THE ONLY LEVERAGE WE HAVE IS TO HOLD BACK OUR MONEY, PUT THE PRESSURE ON HIM AND HIS COMPANY, TO RECTIFY THIS SITUATION.

The TMC budget may show a reserve for bad debts or owner's non-payment to maintenance fees but according to documents filed with the court by the Attorney General's office TMC is in arrears on their real estate taxes to the State of New York. Eichner stated he made 400 million dollars from the Manhattan Club.

ABSOLUTELY, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT!

KEEP IN TOUCH.

PAX

chris

henryd30 wrote:

THE REALITY IS IF WE DO NOT PAY OUR MAINTENANCE FEES THE DEBT INCURRED IS EICHNER'S NOT OURS. IF WE CONTINUE TO NOT PAY HE WILL HAVE TO COME TO SOME RESOLVE AS TO HOW TO PAY THE COST TO OPERATE THE MANHATTAN CLUB. IF WE PAY THE FEES, AND COURT RULES IN HIS FAVOR, WE ARE OUT THE MONEY. THEN WHAT? THE ONLY LEVERAGE WE HAVE IS TO HOLD BACK OUR MONEY, PUT THE PRESSURE ON HIM AND HIS COMPANY, TO RECTIFY THIS SITUATION.

irene, following your line of reasoning: NOT PAYING MAINTENANCE FEES IS THE WAY TO GO! we can check the nys tax records to verify that eichner is in arrears of his real estate taxes; i believe that's a matter of public record. could it be that eichner will join madoff in some jailhouse cuisine? could it be that eichner lies?

PAX

chris

irenes93 wrote:

The TMC budget may show a reserve for bad debts or owner's non-payment to maintenance fees but according to documents filed with the court by the Attorney General's office TMC is in arrears on their real estate taxes to the State of New York. Eichner stated he made 400 million dollars from the Manhattan Club.

I finally got off my duff and wrote my letter to the judge. And I certainly felt better for having done it. What it did was to force me to go back in history to our initial purchase and conditions and compare them to what we have now. The maintenance fees have gone up by 352% since our purchase in 1998 and the restrictions on use have continued to escalate.

All that said, we still would like to maintain our ownership of our 7 nights, just with different management and stipulations.

Peace in the New Year to all, Michael

Unfortunately there are MANY owners who are still paying their maintenance fees. Many who have no idea what is happening and since the attorney general investigation, every owner will get the nights they want regardless of when(with the exception of nyrs). You may be wait listed for a day or two but you will get it.. Then again, the wait list will become a thing of the past soon, if it hasn't already. No need for it anymore.

FELLOW OWNERS OF THE MANHAHTTAN CLUB FRAUD/SCHEME/SHAM:

is it only i, but are there others of us who feel we are getting advice from every angle, but not one angle that smacks of any authority? pay your maintenance fees.......then what happens? don't pay your maintenance fees........then what happens? wait with any further actions until the case, SCHNEIDERMAN V EICHNER, is over? then what? does it matter if we write to Her Honor of not?

when and by whom will we get any advice that is truly and legally worth pursuing and following? look above: there are nearly 89 pages of all kinds of complaints, advice, admonitions, et al within this redweek.com forum......sorry to say, few if any, carry any real authority for us to act intelligently on. basicaily fellow owners, i see us as lost and perhaps sinking ships UNLESS SOMEONE WITH AUTHORITY ADVISES US: NAMELY ERIC SCHNEIDERMAN AND /OR AN ATTORNEY AMONG US WHO REALLY KNOWS THE LAW AND ITS APPLICATIONS PERTAINING TO OUR PREDICAMENT.

pax happy new year

chris

According to court records filed by the Manhattan Club in 2012 there are/were 18,480 TMC owners.

http://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/iscroll/SQLData.jsp?IndexNo=652662-2013 This case is filed in the Supreme Court of NY, County of NY Document #88 shows the total of Manhattan Club owners as 18,480 as of 11/30/2012. 3,826 from NY. 

The judge over this case has received four dozen letters to date. Is Eichner right? Are the vast majority of Manhattan Club Owners happy with the Manhattan Club? Let's show the Judge the truth with our letters showing TMC to be the scam that it is.

The court does not give out email addresses. Use snail mail.

Write to the TMC case Judge!

Justice Eileen Rakower, Supreme Court of the State of New York 71 Thomas St. Part 15 New York, New York 10013 The case number is 451536/2014 and the case title is Schneiderman v. Eichner.

Here is a sample letter from TMC owner Albert Meyer:

Justice Eileen Rakower, Supreme Court of the State of New York 71 Thomas St. Part 15 New York, New York 10013 Dear Justice Rakower: Regarding case number 451536/2014: Schneiderman vs Eichner: We have been time share owners of the Manhattan Club for __ years. When we purchased we were promised a valuable ownership in New York property and access to all the wonders that the city has to offer at a very convenient location a few steps from Carnegie Hall, Broadway, Central Park and Lincoln Center. In addition we were told that our property would surely appreciate in value over the years and would be relatively easy to sell if necessary. We decided upon a flexible ownership plan allowing us to book a few nights at a time rather than a set, fixed one week. We were told that bookings would have to be made considerably in advance of our needs and initially found that making a booking a month or two in advance worked fine Within a few years the annual maintenance fee for our week grew to the point that a reasonable hotel room in Manhattan could be had for the pro-rated fee amount but we liked the location, amenities, etc that the Manhattan Club offered. A few years ago we were told that bookings had to be made 9 MONTHS! in advance – not one day sooner or later, to have any chance of getting a room. Even that became quite difficult. Most recently, making ANY booking, even 9 months in advance has been almost impossible. The reason became apparent – the Manhattan Club was taking our annual fee and then renting our room / suite through agents like WWW.Hotels.com, effectively making it unavailable to us. On several occasions we were unable to make a telephone reservation due to unavailability only to find that our equivalent room was quite available on sites like WWW.Hotels.com. Attempts at selling or even giving away our ownership in the Manhattan Club have been futile – the word is out as to how bad it has become. Please consider the plight of owners like us carefully. Many have been hurt by the greed of the management of the Manhattan Club, which has become a financial burden for many of us. Sincerely, Your Name Your Name Your Street Address Your city, state, zip code Current date 

We also would not pay our maintenance fee but only pay when we book our week. I suggest everyone do the same. If you book way in advance you should not have a problem. With that said, the fees have gone through the roof. Just paid $2700. I'm sure much of this is do to people not paying their fees.

laurah136 wrote:

I sent my letter to the Justice the other day.

Someone asked the other day about paying maintenance fees. I would never NOT pay a maintenance fee. It can affect your credit and it harms all those owners who do pay their fees. I know it's been a long time that we've been dealing with this. What if there is no settlement? We have no way of knowing what the outcome will be.

A great letter! Can we copy and paste it? Can't think of a better way of summarizing.