Manhattan Club Lawsuit

This was written on the sheet headed "Reservation and Occupancy Confirmation Procedures" given to us on buying which I took to be accurate as everything else on that sheet had to be followed.

Irene,

I gather that you are the most active owner trying to get some action on this scam. Therefore, I am wondering about your view of my suggestion, made on the Redweek website earlier, that interested owners put a small ad in the Sunday real estate section of the NY Times alerting frustrated members, unaware of us and our efforts, to the Redweek website (which they probably don't know about). The ad would, of course, include a sentence or two describing the MC rip-off and the lack of information from the AG on its investigation. It could establish communication with many other members who don't know where to go with this. I don't know what such a small ad would cost but I would be willing to chip in with you and maybe some others to pay for it. It appears that writing letters to the editor, phone calls, emails and past press coverage haven't done the trick. A sharp ad conveying outrage would likely get more attention. Please email your reaction to my idea to leoyesleo@gmail.com. Thanks.

Leo Seligsohn

beryla3 wrote:

We have been owners since 2002 and have 7 consecutive or non-consecutive nights per year. In our occupancy rights it states under " Bulk Bank" with exchange company The Management Company's right to remove from inventory available for reservation by Owners, and deposit with RCI, that number of seven (7) consecutive night occupancy periods which the Management Company reasonably believes will be necessary to accommodate the number of owners will use their Ownership Interests for exchange purpose each Use Year.

From the number of RCI guests one meets in the lobby, we all know that they have exceeded this level a long time ago. Does anyone know if the AG is aware of the written promise from 2002

Beryl

Reply:

I have been in touch with the AG regarding a letter from Salvatore Reale (in 2007) concerning unavailability of rooms. His response referred me to the Mangement Company Priorities.

In my letter to the AG, I cited the RCI provision -- removal from inventory of occupancy periods "the Mangement Company reasonably believes will be necessary to accommodate owners who will use their interests for exchange purposes with RCI."

I commented: "An audit of the periods so removed and actually used by owners under the RCI program would shed light on the reasonableness of any such removal."

I also commented: " Paragraph (c) authorized the Management Company to rent to the general public periods which remain unreserved 72 hours prior to the first day thereof. The implication here is that there would be no right to remove from inventory and rent to others any units until that 72 hour period commences."

Just came back from the MC, talked to some people about our issues with the club. I have come to the conclusion that a lot of people do not know what is going on. Mr. Eichner is not loosing sleep about how much this is costing him. He has learned to adapt. While waiting for check in, exactly at 4pm I saw several people getting on a tour bus, leaving the MC. I talked to a couple from Argentina who had made reservations August 6 to stay for 5 days this week, no problem there he got in the internet got his reservation within minutes And I have to make reservation 9 months to the day to get in. There is something rotten there. For those people who have stopped paying for maintenance fees you can say that Mr. Eichner is Not double dipping between us paying our fees" and not getting" and him renting to outsiders.

Jeff, what if all of us who are in this forum had their "say" and we contributed to a full page ad in the NY Times pointing out that the AG has stalled his investigation, the phony company that took monies from our inflated maintenance fees of over six million, etc., would that in addition to turning the heat on the AG also bring this to the attention of thousands of owners who are not aware of the facts? We would certainly be willing to contribute generously towards an ad!

Hi Leo,

I contacted the NYC Mayor's office and spoke to his general counsel about the Manhattan Club Scam. The general counsel, Zachary Carter, advised me the Manhattan Club Timeshare matter is the bailiwick of Attorney General Schneiderman. He said the Mayor is not likely to get involved. As TMC owners we have tried many approaches. A full page ad in the New York Times is a new approach. Are you willing to organize this? There has to be a chink in Eichner's scam we can find. There are at least 1,000 owners aware and angry about the TMC scam. If every owner reviewed their paperwork, thought about what was said to them or they observed at TMC, sent in documentation to the AG and used their professional skills and resources to attack the Manhattan Club we will find that weak link. No crook is infallible. Eichner and his people made a mistake somewhere. We just have to find it.

I also observed TMC going after the international market. It is very difficult and costly for someone from another country to sue.

Irene Smalls

I am in for $100, and 1000 of us would generate $100,000 for an ad -- or maybe 3 or 4 smaller ads for more impressions.

The objective is to get the attention of someone like Joe Nocera or Gretchen Morgenson (sp?) by spelling out the details, the current situation, and the frustration with the AG stonewalling.

By the way, for those who haven't seen it, below is a link to the video of the Aug 15 2015 meeting that Redweek & Timeshare Today organized and conducted with 100+ owners. It provides an update and some insights as to the status a few months ago. It has over 800 views, So we can presume that many more owners are aware of what's going on than indicated by the traffic on this blog and on yahoo. Keep the faith.

http://youtu.be/6N1Of2mKLC0

Hi Craig,

We need someone to organize this New York Times Ad. What is the cost? Who is to write the ad? Who is to proof the ad? What lawyer will review it. We don't want to get sued. Eichner would love to spend our money suing us.

Manhattan Club Owners are sophisticated and well educated. I have corresponded with TMC owners who are judges, lawyers, airline pilots, accountants, financiers and business owners. We are not victims unless we choose to be. We TMC owners have the skills do more. Do we have a marketing specialist who can suggest the best way to make an impact? Do we need to tweet about the TMC scam, what about instagram or even Linked in? Even a billionaire is affected by a lot of negative buzz. Reviews count. 1,000 negative reviews will impact the foreign customers Eichner and company is attracting. An ad in the New York Times is a good start. We need a sustained anti_Manhattan Club Scam social media campaign as well. In addition, we need a whistle blower. Does anyone know any disgruntled TMC employees former or present who knows where the bodies are buried?

Irene Smalls

Irene,

I appreciate Redweek's website but I think we should find a better way to communicate. Please email me at leoyesleo@gmail.com.

Leo

hi irene,

if "I have corresponded with TMC owners who are judges, lawyers, airline pilots, accountants, financiers and business owners. We are not victims unless we choose to be."..............why hasn't any one with legal expertise............."judges, lawyers" come forward with expert advice re all TMC owners' issues with this financially (and otherwise) destructive timeshare?

WE ARE IN DESPRATE NEED OF EXPERT HELP, NOT JUST A SHOT IN THE DARK AS TO WHO WILL, EG, WRITE, EDIT, GET LEGAL ADVICE CONCERNING....... AN AD IN THE NEW YORK TIMES.

currently, i believe we are, not by choice, but in actuality, victims of TMC SHAM, FRAUD and will remain so until we get the essential help (which is available) that we need. it's also the job of ERIC SCHNEIDERMAN to find "wholes" in eichner's activities in order to come out a winner in this legal matter. mr schneiderman area of expertise is THE LAW.............hey, he's the NYSAG.

chris

irenes93 wrote:

Hi Craig,

We need someone to organize this New York Times Ad. What is the cost? Who is to write the ad? Who is to proof the ad? What lawyer will review it. We don't want to get sued. Eichner would love to spend our money suing us.

Manhattan Club Owners are sophisticated and well educated. I have corresponded with TMC owners who are judges, lawyers, airline pilots, accountants, financiers and business owners. We are not victims unless we choose to be. We TMC owners have the skills do more. Do we have a marketing specialist who can suggest the best way to make an impact? Do we need to tweet about the TMC scam, what about instagram or even Linked in? Even a billionaire is affected by a lot of negative buzz. Reviews count. 1,000 negative reviews will impact the foreign customers Eichner and company is attracting. An ad in the New York Times is a good start. We need a sustained anti_Manhattan Club Scam social media campaign as well. In addition, we need a whistle blower. Does anyone know any disgruntled TMC employees former or present who knows where the bodies are buried?

Irene Smalls

Hi Chris,

I agree with a lot of what you said. I am frustrated and angry too. The NYAG's client is the State of New York, not TMC owners. It is not Schneiderman's job to prosecute aspects of the Manhattan Club Scam pertaining to individual owners. He may, but we cannot count on that, TMC violated State laws and will probably pay fines. There is no aspect of this case thus far that deals with compensation or redress for owners.

Irene Smalls

My wife and I just returned from the MC. On arrival there, we didn't have to wait till 4PM for our room. We were able to to move into a vacant suite without delay. The atmosphere in the place was very subdued, quiet, and less crowded than in the past. We inquired of a staff member about the volume of business and were told that business activity was much reduced for the past year. When we alluded to the AG we were told that there were 219 counts against BE. I consider this information to be in the realm of rumor until there is confirmatory evidence and do NOT present it as factual. Les

My experience at the MC was different from yours, this weekend: came in at 10:30AM waited till 3:55PM after complaining to the front desk " why certain people were getting rooms before me", the answer my room was not ready. I have NOT requested a particular room for my stay. Why do we need to check out so early? Also, the following day the lobby was crowded with people from a Tour bus. I did noticed that the staff was aloft but friendly.

I have talked to dozens of Manhattan Club owners during the past two years of covering this story. They have much in common. But most have a long life history of experience and are able to put their TMC experience into perspective. Others appear to so consumed by their outrage that it has become a life's cause. With regard to the current idea of putting an ad in NYTimes or elsewhere, or getting the attention of some key reporters, I think that would be good money poorly spent. The NYTimes is no longer the media power-broker that it used to be. You can get more attention for your cause using social media than a traditional newspaper. Want media attention? Get hundreds of owners to walk a picket around the block of AG's office, and or the Manhattan Club.

Hi All:

New to this message board... what a show this whole Manhattan Club Timeshare has become. Just wanted to ask the group.. Have you all continued to pay your annual maintenance charges while this is going on? Any insight from the AG on that and lastly.. what is the recourse from MC if you don't pay?

patrickb245 wrote:

Hi All:

New to this message board... what a show this whole Manhattan Club Timeshare has become. Just wanted to ask the group.. Have you all continued to pay your annual maintenance charges while this is going on? Any insight from the AG on that and lastly.. what is the recourse from MC if you don't pay?

hi patrickb245, i've been on the redweek forum (THE MANHATTAN CLUB) for many months. yes, i just about share your take: it seems to be becoming a show, with a stale plot and no end in sight. i own 2 wks (one in the ridiculous "penthouse suites".........what a mistake!) the other wk is in a nice one bedroom. i did not pay maintenance on the penthouse....nearly $3,000.....HEY THIS IS FOR ONE WEEK!...but i paid about $2,500 maintenance for the one bedroom. TMC has sent me bills for the penthouse with usurious late and interest fees (possibly illegal...WHAT ELSE IS NEW?......TMC WILL PUSH THEIR GREEDY WAYS UNTIL SOMEONE STOPS THEM LEGALLY), getting to the driving question of what the hell is going on: NOT ONE OF US REALLY KNOWS OR, IT APPEARS, CAN LOOK FORWARD TO GETTING ANSWERS FROM THE NYSAG, ERIC SCNHEIDERMAN (WE PROBABLY WOULDN'T GENERATE ENOUGH VOTES FOR RE-ELECTION) OR TMC.

concerning your apt question "what is the recourse from MC if you don't pay?" WHO KNOWS. A WORD OF EXPERT ADVICE FROM THE NYSAG WOULD BE HELPFUL, BUT THAT DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE FORTHCOMING. so the stale plot continues and we sit and watch ad nauseum. we owners are all weary of the comments that mr schneiderman is building his case. WHEN IS HE GOING TO MOVE ON TO AN ACTUAL LAWSUIT TO BRING THESE FRAUDS TO JUSTICE? THIS "INVESTIGATIVE" PHASE OF THE LAWSUIT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR OVER A YEAR. YOUR GUESS IS AS GOOD AS MINE. THE EVIDENCE IS THERE...............TELL IT TO THE JUDGE.

keep in touch,

chrisv126

For the benefit of you recent arrivals to this forum....

In their most recent July, 2015 filing with the NY court, the Attorney General enumerates a remarkable list of allegations of civil and criminal conduct on the part of The Manhattan Club. In reading through the filing, one can't help but be struck by the enormity of the fraud which the Eichners, The Manhattan Club, and related companies have carried on for years. Here is the link to this most recent AG filing. This document is a MUST READ. You may have to cut and paste this link into your browser.

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=arMAhc2Z8epneiTXUbb_PLUS_yQ==&system=prod

Based on these most recent allegations by the NY AG, my wife and I have decided to stop paying the mortgage loan on our unit as well as the annual maintenance fees. We have decided not to continue to fund The Manhattan Club's fraudulent, and possibly criminal enterprise.

Bob Biello

Thank you Bob for providing this extremely helpful document. While the case is still before the court, it does show that the NYAG is pursuing its resolution. As for all the others on this blog who have continued to press forward, thank you as well. I'm sure your complaints had much to do with the AG taking on the matter and its vigorous prosecution. But what I see is that far too much of this blog is devoted to personal venting instead of real knowledge like this filing, which was made July 5, 2015, over 3 months ago, while people on this blog are still criticizing the AG for inaction. It should be obvious to all that the MC structure is highly complex, involving multiple entities and frequent changes. The amount of forensics involved to unravel it all must be staggering. After it's all over, I would love to know how much the AG will have spent on the case. Thank you everyone for what you have accomplished to date, but can we keep this blog focused from here on out?

TMC Fees: To pay, or not to pay.... is a good question. All owners have to make that decision. I'm no lawyer but it seems to me that whatever the outcome of the NYSAG case, the owners will end up in several different categories with different 'rights' should there be some kind of relief for owners. And that will need to be sorted out legally.... which also won't be easy. There are those who: 1) paid all mortgages, and paying taxes & maintenance 2) paid mortgages and taxes, but not paying maintenance (not sure how TMC actually handled owners attempts to separate taxes from maintenance) 3) paid mortgages, but are not paying taxes and maintenance 4) are still paying on outstanding mortgages and paying taxes & maintenance 5) have stopped paying mortgages, and not paying taxes and maintenance

There are some combinations that i've not listed (e.g. intermittent payments in one of the categories), but the point is that we have different 'legal' relationships both with TMC and the government (taxes & deeds). Just something to consider in your decisions about paying or not.