Marriott Going to Point Syst

bob2001 said "Amazingly, points work for those who bought on the resale market at 20 cents on the dollar in order to rent - if they built a sufficiently large portfolio, they can get the prime weeks (via Premier and Premier Plus reservation advantage) and rent them out at prime prices."

I disagree it will work for them. If someone has aquired 20 units most/all as LO on the resale market to trade into better resorts/units and can get 30-40 reservations thru weeks, but now can only get 6 units thru points, the maintenance on the 20 units compared to the rental revenue for 6 units, no matter how prime, will not work out. And since the 20 LO unit owner was securing 30-40 weeks, there's no way 6 prime weeks can generate the revenue the 30-40 previously were. I'm making a very loose example based on bob2001's statement he had 20 units which can secure 6 prime unit thru points. I believe my example is pretty accurate though.

Sorry I was confusing - you are right about the finances, but wrong about what I said. At a peak I owned 4 weeks. 3 had no lockoff (Hilton Head), 1 had a lockoff (MDS). I usually traded for hotel points, getting the high end hotels and 120K airline miles for 270K Rewards points. On Jan 15, 2009, Marriott devalued the hotel points (the same trade now goes for 360K points - 33% more). So, I sold 3 weeks and am selling my 4th week ASAP. I have never rented any of my weeks out. I bought all weeks through Marriott and sold my 3 through Marriott. Selling MDS through Marriott is not an option, so it will go 3rd party. My first week was 1991 and, in total, I have had around 40 year/weeks to occupy, trade with II or trade for Rewards Points. I occupied a total of 1 week out of those 40, the rest were trades or points. My white MDS lockoff (1BR + Studio) constantly got me very nice 2BR units (I can't explain why, but they did). My Sunset Pointe (Platinum, valued at 1400 points in the new program) got me Aruba Surf in March (2BR OV 4650 points) and Ko Olina in Janurary (2BR Mountain View 4050 points). I could go on and on about the good trades and the good old days. But, they are gone.

Back to my (confusing) '6 out of 20' - that was merely stating that, as a white week MDS owner, I had access to 20 weeks in a given year, including Thanksgiving. The points (2375) that Marriott offers to white week owners would allow me access (from my home unit) to 6 of those 20 weeks - 14 weeks are taken away due to high point values placed on the weeks that I can no longer access. It has been pointed out - it makes no sense to trade your unit in for points and then go back to your home resort - with the price to occupy and the points offered, that would be a very poor transaction for any owner. But, losing 70% of my weeks is a picture of HOW BAD the points offered is compared to the points required to get in somewhere else. I think there may be over 10,000 different numbers in the matrix of points (resort, week, unit size, view) which makes an exhaustive comparison quite difficult. I'm just saying that my meager points don't get me what II has gotten me.

As to owners who have accumulated many weeks in order to rent - they are left with the choice of selling and getting out of the business or trying to rent non-prime weeks, or joining points to get access to prime weeks - but the prime weeks are going to the Premium and Premium Plus points owners at 13 months out . But, come to think of it, the ones who rent have also been severely short changed with their points - so even they can't get the prime weeks unless they buy points or consolidate units (points for 2 units combined to get access to one prime unit) The result (as the last poster noted) is that maintenance fees that will make the process not financially viable.

All told, there is no current owner (one who trades, rents or occupies every year) that could benefit from points vs. the "old system". Even those who got a lot of points and see points as an opportunity to use those points to go to other Marriotts - they could have done that quite nicely with II in the old system.

The only one who has posted so far that I see has a benefit from points is where they can get a slight reduction in lockoff fees if they have heavy use of lockoff (many weeks). With this scenario, they never ever turn their week in for points, they occupy their home resort, but occupy it in lockoff units creating extra vacation weeks at their home property. That is a pretty narrow window of 'points usage' - that is, they never actually use points!?!

Renters want prime weeks, traders want prime weeks (greater value of trade) and owners want prime weeks to occupy. Marriott sold the weeks initially with MUCH less differentiation, but now is pricing a large differentiation via the point structure (prime weeks cost many more points). Hawaii is the easiest example (weeks 1-50 sold at the same price, but rent out at widely varied points prices) - the weeks Marriott has cherry picked will be very difficult to come by.

I'm confused about the concern about going back to your home resort? You book your week as usual and go..there aren't any points or trades involved.... (I guess unless you change your mind later about the dates you have booked).

Two years ago it was the "new, improved" Marriott Rewards point system with the ability to get a "free" night when you bought 4. It took a minute to see that they were charging more points per night and making out like a bandit. Seems like they don't think their loyal customers can see through the smoke and mirrors. Most every year when we go to enjoy our vacation investment we are faced with news as to how the developers have found a new way to take advantage of us...(to say it nicely). Although I like the idea of the flexibility and actually looked forward to the roll out...once again, it's a develper biased plan. What a great revenue source for them to charge for the conversion?? I would think to be fair they would have those using points wait an extra month to allow the deeded owners who intend to use their weeks make their reservations. Sounds like a hornets nest to me!

annet84 wrote:

I'm confused about the concern about going back to your home resort? You book your week as usual and go..there aren't any points or trades involved.... (I guess unless you change your mind later about the dates you have booked).

Perhaps I should clarify - you seem to be saying "what's the problem, just return to your home resort?" Two concerns - one I virtually never went back to my home resort (one time out of 40 year/weeks - I used trading or points for all other reservations), the other - availability of prime weeks. In the past, they were difficult (get up to call at 6:00 a.m. (California time) and call in) - in the future, I predict prime weeks will be much more difficult to reserve. Other than that, no concern.

I'm very frustrated with Marriott and decided to explain our experience from earlier today. We have owned a 2br Canyon Villas EOY unit for 6 years now. It's been a great experience over the past 6 years. We've never stayed at the Canyon Villas although we plan to in the future (we've exchanged through II to Hawaii, Florida, and California). We paid about $9,000 for our Canyon Villas EOY 2br (Gold Season) and pay around $450/year in MFs.

We are currently staying at Harbor Lake in Orlando and decided to meet with a Marriott sales rep for their presentation on the new point system. I have been doing research on this forum and others to prepare for the preso.

First of all, our Marriott sales rep made a good first impression. She was extremely nice and friendly (of course). She started by showing us a bunch of Marriott press releases about their new point system and of course the articles talked about how great it was and how much more beneficial it is compared vs. the old system.

She gave us our point amount for our Canyon Villas EOY which is 1,825 points every other year and then she showed several scenarios on how cheap weeks are in the new program (showed how we could get a week in Hawaii for 1900 and Hilton Head for 700). I then asked her to show me their booklet on their different properties and the point costs. It was pretty evident to me that there are actually very few weeks that we could buy for 1,825 points (our given amount). So, I made her show me how she came up with 1,900 points for a week in Hawaii. This is where I started to think I was on a used car lot. Sure you can go to Hawaii for a week if you switch properties 3 times that week and stay in studios (it was pitched that you would see 3 separate islands).

Anyway, she essentially offered us an additional 1,000 points for $9,200 and we'd receive 1,100 extra points the first year (and they would waive our $595 induction fee).

1,000 points is the minium upgrade that you can buy and she claims that after this year 2,000 extra points will be the minimum (so this was our chance).

We've enjoyed our Every other Year program because we go on vacations with friends or family (at there locations) every other year or so. So if you enjoy the EOY program you are out of luck in the new Marriott Point System. There is nothing for you or us :)

So if we did spend $9,200 we'd get 1,000 per year and 1,825 EOY which is less than satisfactory not to mention that our annual costs would double to over $1,000 in fees (and we would not necessarilly get to stay where we wanted each year).

This is extremely frustrating because we bought in at the minimum level in hopes of doing some trading to other Marriotts and that's what we've done over the last 6 years. That's all about to change for us. I doubt we are going to be able to trade for other Marriotts if we stay in the old program (interval) and we'll have to save up 3 years in points to afford to stay at the places we want in the points system.

This is absolutely not what we signed up for 6years ago when our sales person "promised us the world".

Okay so back to the fun part. Of course our sales lady left he room to let us discuss it. I'm pretty sure those rooms are bugged because it's like she heard what we were saying while she was out (which was basically that this sucks and we weren't doing it).

She brought her manager back in with her and asked what we decided. I told her that we weren't going to spend the $9,200 and she replied "but you probably spend $100 a month on cable (that's the cost with their low low 9.9% financing)".

I had to say no again and this time she said "then you'll just enroll in the new system with your low point level"? And I said, no we need to research it a bit more but we'll more than likely stick with the old program and exchange through Interval. I asked if there are any incentives to enroll now vs. having the rest of the year to decide (for the 800 bonus points before 12/31/10 like we already get) and told her if not then I was going to think about it but more than likely stick with Interval. This is where she got pissed. She said rather abruptly "What inventory are you going to exchange for? All the Marriotts will be taken out of Interval". I said then I guess we are going to exchange for non-Marriotts, which is not what we were sold 6 years ago. Funny how up until now they really sold the Interval exchange advantages and how much better II is than RCI.

She then simply said that her manager would escort us out. He took us down the elevator and out without saying a single word.

It was a very strange situation and my wife and I felt like we were dealing with your typical timeshare used car salesmen. It was pretty shady and I don't think we should have been treated that way as existing owners even if we did tell them "no".

I thought about sending Marriott a letter letting them know that we didn't appreciate them talking down to us when we said "no".

I even thought about putting a "liar" sticker on the forehead of Bill Marriott in his portrait in their lobby, but I did'nt:)

Please someone convince me that this point system is a good thing. Their sales person sure thinks it is.

"She then simply said that her manager would escort us out. He took us down the elevator and out without saying a single word."

Wow, old style timeshare/lake-lot sales types from the 70s.

Write that letter & quote names if you have them.

Marriott has created a PR nightmare for themselves and their owners.

All they had to do was continue selling deeded property and adding the "convert to points" option for those who wished to buy in. This would have the advantage of everyone having a "home location" and a "home mtce fee" -- while offering another more flexible way to use your weeks if you wish to do so.

Instead they now have two systems: one for deeded owners and one for points owners with the points owners having to pay 40 cents per point for the mtce fee. This significanty changes who pays the mtce fees as Hawaii is averaged with Orlando. Since the points needed for bronze weeks are less then for a platinum week, then by defination not all owners are paying the same fee per week for the same location.

It is true that some of the sales people are totally mispositioning how the new plan works and how priorities are determined. This happened to a friend of mine this past week at a location I atttended.

The soluton is to continue to sell deeded property and to sell the vacation points as an option. Then all owners would be treated equally. This reminds me of when Coke came out with the new coke that no one liked. They went back to the old Coke. The question is whether Marriott managment can catch on that there is a much better way to do this that would be far easier to implement and would have far more support of the owners -- and the salespeople.

j227 wrote:

All they had to do was continue selling deeded property and adding the "convert to points" option for those who wished to buy in.

Yep - I too have wondered why Marriott felt compelled to halt the sale of deeded-weeks. Why not continue selling deeded-weeks as before but also add the points-conversion option for those who want to pay extra for more flexibility. But Marriott is going "all-in" with this new points program. It is reported that MVCI was losing buckets of money in this down economy, so they had to make some dramatic changes.

Marriott lost track of a very simple concept: To make money you have to provide your customes with something they want at a price they are willing to pay. And for services like a timeshare it has to be done in a way that the vast majority of owners feel is fair and approprite.

I am anxious to hear Marriott's explanation as to why they moved away from deeded property as it makes zero sense to me. They can't argue that they changed from deeded property to make the system more flexible as it would have been just as flexible if they just added a points option.

What will be interesting is how Boards of Directors at various locations handle this. These Boards are elected by the owners to ensure their needs are being appropriately handled. It is not at all clear to me how they can properly carry out their responsibilities under this new points plan.

MARRIOTT: RETURN TO SELLING DEEDED PROPERTY WITH THE POINTS PROGRAM AS AN OPTION -- JUST LIKE YOU CLAIM IT IS FOR CURRENT OWNERS. AND DO IT NOW.

bs139 wrote:

I'm very frustrated with Marriott and decided to explain our experience from earlier today. We have owned a 2br Canyon Villas EOY unit for 6 years now. It's been a great experience over the past 6 years. We've never stayed at the Canyon Villas although we plan to in the future (we've exchanged through II to Hawaii, Florida, and California). We paid about $9,000 for our Canyon Villas EOY 2br (Gold Season) and pay around $450/year in MFs.

We are currently staying at Harbor Lake in Orlando and decided to meet with a Marriott sales rep for their presentation on the new point system. I have been doing research on this forum and others to prepare for the preso.

First of all, our Marriott sales rep made a good first impression. She was extremely nice and friendly (of course). She started by showing us a bunch of Marriott press releases about their new point system and of course the articles talked about how great it was and how much more beneficial it is compared vs. the old system.

She gave us our point amount for our Canyon Villas EOY which is 1,825 points every other year and then she showed several scenarios on how cheap weeks are in the new program (showed how we could get a week in Hawaii for 1900 and Hilton Head for 700). I then asked her to show me their booklet on their different properties and the point costs. It was pretty evident to me that there are actually very few weeks that we could buy for 1,825 points (our given amount). So, I made her show me how she came up with 1,900 points for a week in Hawaii. This is where I started to think I was on a used car lot. Sure you can go to Hawaii for a week if you switch properties 3 times that week and stay in studios (it was pitched that you would see 3 separate islands).

Anyway, she essentially offered us an additional 1,000 points for $9,200 and we'd receive 1,100 extra points the first year (and they would waive our $595 induction fee).

1,000 points is the minium upgrade that you can buy and she claims that after this year 2,000 extra points will be the minimum (so this was our chance).

We've enjoyed our Every other Year program because we go on vacations with friends or family (at there locations) every other year or so. So if you enjoy the EOY program you are out of luck in the new Marriott Point System. There is nothing for you or us :)

So if we did spend $9,200 we'd get 1,000 per year and 1,825 EOY which is less than satisfactory not to mention that our annual costs would double to over $1,000 in fees (and we would not necessarilly get to stay where we wanted each year).

This is extremely frustrating because we bought in at the minimum level in hopes of doing some trading to other Marriotts and that's what we've done over the last 6 years. That's all about to change for us. I doubt we are going to be able to trade for other Marriotts if we stay in the old program (interval) and we'll have to save up 3 years in points to afford to stay at the places we want in the points system.

This is absolutely not what we signed up for 6years ago when our sales person "promised us the world".

Okay so back to the fun part. Of course our sales lady left he room to let us discuss it. I'm pretty sure those rooms are bugged because it's like she heard what we were saying while she was out (which was basically that this sucks and we weren't doing it).

She brought her manager back in with her and asked what we decided. I told her that we weren't going to spend the $9,200 and she replied "but you probably spend $100 a month on cable (that's the cost with their low low 9.9% financing)".

I had to say no again and this time she said "then you'll just enroll in the new system with your low point level"? And I said, no we need to research it a bit more but we'll more than likely stick with the old program and exchange through Interval. I asked if there are any incentives to enroll now vs. having the rest of the year to decide (for the 800 bonus points before 12/31/10 like we already get) and told her if not then I was going to think about it but more than likely stick with Interval. This is where she got pissed. She said rather abruptly "What inventory are you going to exchange for? All the Marriotts will be taken out of Interval". I said then I guess we are going to exchange for non-Marriotts, which is not what we were sold 6 years ago. Funny how up until now they really sold the Interval exchange advantages and how much better II is than RCI.

She then simply said that her manager would escort us out. He took us down the elevator and out without saying a single word.

It was a very strange situation and my wife and I felt like we were dealing with your typical timeshare used car salesmen. It was pretty shady and I don't think we should have been treated that way as existing owners even if we did tell them "no".

I thought about sending Marriott a letter letting them know that we didn't appreciate them talking down to us when we said "no".

I even thought about putting a "liar" sticker on the forehead of Bill Marriott in his portrait in their lobby, but I did'nt:)

Please someone convince me that this point system is a good thing. Their sales person sure thinks it is.

This sounds like other shady timeshare presentations I have attended - NOT GOOD, and certainly not what I expect from Marriott. Paying an additional $9,200 to purchase something you already own (but at a lesser value) seems like insanity to me! In this economy Marriott should be happy that owners can pay their maintenance fees! If no one pays into this "new, improved" system, then Marriott may have to reconsider. I love II and plan on staying with them - especially since a purchased a 5 yr. membership! Thanks for sharing your insightful story. The moral is: DON'T BUY POINTS! I also strongly urge you to write a letter to Bill Marriott.

I have been a long time supporter of Marriott timeshares. I own 5 weeks (all purchased directly through Marriott), and I have referred over 20 friends and family who have purchased over the years. I have tried to weigh the positives and negatives of this new program, but my only conclusion is that Marriott has purposely sold out its loyal customer base. The program is totally flawed (for all the reasons indicated many times by others on this forum). I WILL NEVER AGAIN RECOMMEND A MARRIOTT TIMESHARE PURCHASE TO OTHERS. I WILL NEVER AGAIN BUY A MARRIOTT TIMESHARE FROM MARRIOTT.

Someday, this new program will be written up in business textbooks as one of the all time worst decisions ever made by a successful company.

I very much agree with Thomasn! Last year when we heard about the change, we told a Marriott rep.just what you wrote. We were sold one program and now Marriott is changing it. We could have purchased from Hilton, or Sheridan or Hyatt, but we chose Marriott because the exchanges were simple and easy, and they had a better program as far as exchangin. If space was available at a more upscale property, you might be able to get it.No more. They like to talk about the Marriott family. No more.Most of Marriott's sales were to current owners, but we will never trust them again and will never recommend them. They have broken our trust and without trust you have nothing.

Bad news. Marriott isn't listening to TUGBBS or Redweek or any of their current customers. They have a plan. Screw all prior loyal customers who are stupid enough to get in the points program (and thereby screw those that don't join the points program while they are at it) and resell what they have already sold us previously (by way of the skimming which was referenced in a previous post). I had 4 weeks. Now I have none. I can't imagine who they are going to find to buy their new packaging, but their research says there are dollars to be made in screwing the customer, so away they go. I'm both happy and sad to be a former MVCI member. Happy to be out. Sad because it was good while it lasted.

TO MARRIOTT

ON YOUR SITE PLEASE PROVIDE THE REAL ANSWER AS TO WHY YOU DECIDED TO NO LONGER SELL DEEDED PROPERTY? YOUR CURRENT OWNERS DESERVE TO KNOW.

IN ADDITION, IF YOU WERE ON THE BALL YOU WOULD BE READING WHAT OWNERS ARE SAYING AND RESPONDING TO THEIR CONCERNS.

YOUR CURRENT CUSTOMERS HAVE INVESTED MILLIONS IN MARRIOTT TIMESHARES. HOW ABOUT SOME REAL ANSWERS.

THE POINT SYSTEM IS COOL AS AN OPTION. IT MAKES NO SENSE AS A REPLACEMENT FOR SELLING DEEDED PROPERTY. IF YOU THINK IT DOES THEN PLEASE PROVIDE THE JUSTIFACATION -- OR BETTER YET -- GO BACK TO SELLING DEEDED PROPERTY WITH POINTS AS AN OPTION.

I wonder when so many of us will just stop buying timeshares. There are vacation plans out there that don't take you for $$$. Rent when you want to go on vacation, avoid the maintenance fees and other fees when they want to make some extra $$$.

All timeshares are not a good deal as we all who are on these postings know.

Sorry to see so many are working themselves into a panic just over one month after MVCI introduced their new method of selling Marriott timeshares. Seems extreme to go out and sell off all your timeshares or declare war on a company that has been the leader and stable force in this industry from the day they entered it 25 or so years ago. Before Marriott it was the wild west. Since they entered many other big names have entered and made timehares a key way to travel for those needing more than a hotel room and high levels of luxury.

So many ask why would Marriott make this change. The answer is always, for a publicly traded company, to improve the bottom-line. In this very tough economy many struggling timehshare firms have simply gone under or sold out to companies with capitol to spare. DRI for example is on a buying tear and now has hundreds of properties from dozens of firms that were struggling. Marriott cannot allow quality and standards to drop since it would impact their corporate name which exceeds MVCI by magnitudes.

They hold all new inventory and all remaining inventory or defaulted/repossessed inventory at "sold out" properties. They must pay the maintenence fees/reserve fees/etc for all this inventory until they sell it. Rentals are the only mitigating source for them to fund this major expense. MVCI's challenge is how do we move this unsold inventory? Since the point system is not tied to a specific property they can sell points for existing inventory, but market them as having an opportunity to vacation at any MVCI site (just like weeks were marketed when Marriott started out using RCI/II and MVCI exchanges). Without sales Marriott will stop building new properties and simply manage properties (which they do well).

Since even Marriott has been hurt by the slow economy of post 2005/6 they need to either improve sales (the bottom-line) or divest. I am happy they are trying something new to keep sales/ownership percentage high. Remember our property fees would double or triple if ownership percentages drop or Marriott divests. Additionally, property quality would quickly degrade.

So it seems we can divest ourselves of MVCI and look elsewhere for a better alternative. ( There are none. I own dozens of timeshares with all the major players, but Marriott is still the best.) I stronly suggest we all allow the system to get started, wish MVCI all the best, and keep providing management sound constructive feedback on how best to navigate this time in our history. Rember Marriott and MVCI are for profit companies and will respond to any input that helps them improve the bottom-line.

My final thought is that this economy will someday improve and those who stand by the best or even buy into the best in the business will be the benefactors in a few years. (note DRI and others are buyers not sellers as they get steals from distressed firms/owners). For me I'll be happy to buy 5 Star MVCI properties for pennies on the dollar. I've bought three this summer. Happy vacationing and don't stress too much remember the reason we bought our first timeshare was to learn to relax and enjoy the good-life.

Erman Cordova Bought Marriott's first timeshare and still buying and vacationing with a smile.

I am not a Marriott employee although it sounds as if you may be one. However, I tend to agree with you. I believe that people have a problem with change and it is difficult for them to fathom even when they don't have to change. Marriott's problem was the manner in which they rolled it out.

When I got information in the mail about the program, it had very little information. No, it had no information on it. I am sure that the purpose was to make sure that owners came to speak with someone so they could enroll them into it. I know they had it online, but many people still did not understand what they were reading and had questions that could not be answered online. Also, I bet there are a lot of seniors out there that don't even use the internet. As a result, Marriott's manner of informing their members of what they have and its new option was poorly handled. I could make several suggestions as to how this could have been handled better. However, I am surprised with the amount of experience and manpower that Marriott has that they would mismanage this.

I love my Marriott timeshare and have no desire to sell it. I will enroll in the new program and use it when I want to because there are some advantages for me to use it. Other owners should make that decision on their own considering their circumstance and then move on.

Badmouthing the points program only hurts us all. Just use your timeshare like you always had and be done with it.

Current owners seem to break down into the following categories. - Those who have no clue that Marriott has even changed how they sell timeshares. - Those who know they have changed but have little clue what this means to them personally. - Those who know they have changed but have little clue what this means to them financially. - Those who have a prettty good understanding. - Those who totally understand the program.

Most comments are on how this plan works and whether or not they like it for their personal use. This makes sense.

However, the new plan will have a major impact over time on how the Board of Directors of each timeshare finance both dues and improvements.

Yes, it is in our interest to support Marriott. But Marriott has to provide a clear understandable rationale and information so we can make an informed judgments. To date they have not done a very good job. I want Marriott to succeed. But it is past time for Marriott to provide the current owers with more then marketing fluff. Anyone can create change. It takes competence to create and expain improvement.

I am sure some where along the way, my question has come up. Sorry if this is redudant. I just joined RW. I learned that my exchange value is 954 points, which I would like to use towards an exchange. However, when looking at preferred destinations, I am not seeing another desirable timeshare equivalent to this point value. How can I purchase additional points? Can I use my Marriott rewards points?