point rental liquidators

donp196 wrote:

Ruth.....the points have to be valid and it usually comes with ownership in some resort. You might have to do some homework to find out. What company do they claim the points are from ? Are you being charged maintenance fees ? Do some investigating and find out.

Thank you, Don. We have owned a timeshare for 20 years, have paid all maintenance fees, and have been RCI weeks members for all that time. BJ's persuasive crew said they would convert the weeks into points (74,500 plus 100,000 bonus points the first year) at Vacation Services International. Excess Property Solutions would, after six months, buy our points from us for 7.5¢ per point, and we could then use this to pay maintenance fees and still vacation anywhere in the world, etc., etc. The catch of course was that we had to pay $9980, which included "closing costs" of $498 to EPS, on our own credit card. This would then be transferred to another, no-interest card, which we could pay off when we received the proceeds from the point sale in 6 months. And please don't ask how we could believe this....

Our question is: what can we tell the credit card company to prove that this is a fraudulent charge, since we receive nothing of tangible value (i.e. a timeshare deed) until the promised payout in 6 months, which we're quite certain will never show up. This new scam seems more clever than the previous one that involved a timeshare sale. Please refer to our June 2 post on p. 49 for further detail.

The 100,000 bonus points given by EPS &/or VSI are fake points just to get you to buy anything that they are selling. These points never get posted anywhere RCI/Resorts/Travel Club....ANYWHERE. The six months thing is to get you to make 6 monthly payments on your credit card so you can not cancel it. Your question: What can we tell the credit card company to prove that this is a fraudulent charge, since we receive nothing of tangible value (i.e. a timeshare deed) until the promised payout in 6 months, which we're quite certain will never show up. This new scam seems more clever than the previous one that involved a timeshare sale.

Answer: You can still tell them you never received any of the services that were told to you. Everything was fraudulent. Send them everything you've got, copies of all your paperwork, Your filling to your AG. And file with you AG's office in your state.

ruthf68 wrote:

donp196 wrote:

Ruth.....the points have to be valid and it usually comes with ownership in some resort. You might have to do some homework to find out. What company do they claim the points are from ? Are you being charged maintenance fees ? Do some investigating and find out.

Thank you, Don. We have owned a timeshare for 20 years, have paid all maintenance fees, and have been RCI weeks members for all that time. BJ's persuasive crew said they would convert the weeks into points (74,500 plus 100,000 bonus points the first year) at Vacation Services International. Excess Property Solutions would, after six months, buy our points from us for 7.5¢ per point, and we could then use this to pay maintenance fees and still vacation anywhere in the world, etc., etc. The catch of course was that we had to pay $9980, which included "closing costs" of $498 to EPS, on our own credit card. This would then be transferred to another, no-interest card, which we could pay off when we received the proceeds from the point sale in 6 months. And please don't ask how we could believe this....

Our question is: what can we tell the credit card company to prove that this is a fraudulent charge, since we receive nothing of tangible value (i.e. a timeshare deed) until the promised payout in 6 months, which we're quite certain will never show up. This new scam seems more clever than the previous one that involved a timeshare sale.

ruthf68,

I don't know what your charging organization was, but mine was 3 charges from R&R Venture Group to my Citibank card. When I started asking the questions of VSI and EPS about how the processes worked, and then checked their responses with RCI, they told me that they had no arrangements with either group to transfer weeks to them.

To deal with VSI, you have to tell your home resort that you are going to stay for your weeks and get a confirmation. You FAX that confirmation to VSI and they record it. You then send them an email or FAX telling them where you would like to go and when. The will email or FAX you a list of places they have availability for meeting your request. You pick the place you want email, FAX, or telephone that info to them and they book it.

When they find someone to use your week, they let you know who they are and all the info about them. You then have to call your home resort to let them know that you will be having a guest use the week that you had confirmed. NONE OF THIS CAN BE DONE ONLINE NO MATTER WHAT BJ'S GANG TOLD YOU. THERE IS NO PLACE YOU CAN SEE WHAT YOU HAVE BANKED OR HOW MANY POINTS YOU HAVE LEFT.

EPS says tht they will call you the first of the month your payout is scheduled for and then they will get RCI on the phone with you and EPS and the weeks will be transfered. RCI says that it does not happen. THERE IS NO PLACE ONLINE OR ELSEWHERE THAT YOU CAN SEE THE BONUS POINTS OR ANYTHING THEY CLAIM WAS TRANSFERED FROM RCI. NO PLACE.

Once I found this out, (About month 2) I filed a dispute of the three charges from R&R Venture Group with Citibank. Citibank immediately credited the amounts back to me and sent requests to the billing account that hit my card. Citibank also wanted my explanation of the dispute along with a copy of the contract and any other supporting information.

R&R Venture Group never answered any of the requests from Citibank. Citibank let the credits for the $498 for EPS membership stand as well as the $349 for VSI. They did not keep the credit for the $9000+ because the 15th of August had not passed yet. However, the customer dispute manager from R&R Venture Group (Lisa somebody) called me and said because they had to send my money for my memberships back to Citibank they had canceled my memberships to VSI and EPS. Therefore I would not get the $12000 on August 15th.

I sent all that information to Citibank, plus an email from VSI saying that my membership had not been canceled. I asked that the dispute for the $9000+ be reopened because without EPS, which R&R owns was no longer part of the contract, then they could not meet their contract obligations and therefore th contract had to be null and void. They are investigating the dispute again.

I have also filed a complaint with the Illinois Attorney General because EPS is located in Morris, Illinois and BJ and lots of his crew live in Ottawa, Illinois. They sent a copy of my complaint to R&R Venture Group which is when I got the call from the Lisa customer dispute manager.

Also have filed a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission. I continually follow up with these entities, updating them on things like the RCI lawsuit against BJ, Josh, EPS, R&R, and VSI.

Ruth.... I hope you received some good information from Boobier and John. You might have to fight this battle with your credit card company. Keep going higher and ask to speak with a supervisor and their fraud department. If all fails then you might have to enlist the help of an attorney. It might be worth expense to hire an attorny if you receive more back from the credit card company.

I personally would keep fighting on my own until I exhausted all my avenues. Remember that the sqeaky wheel gets the grease. Be persistant and let them know that they allowed the scammers to rip people off and you can alert your local newspaper and tv stations to apply some pressure. I would be so mad that they would settle with me just to get rid of me.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Thanks to all who posted - very good information. At the moment, we are in limbo. The credit card company has refused the charges, but says that R & R has 45 days to respond with proof that it is a legitimate charge. And we did, alas, sign the contract. So we'll hope that R & R doesn't respond - with any luck they'll all be in jail? And if they do, we will then work on all the excellent suggestions you have made.

Ruth, It sounds like our circumstances are very similar. We actually cancelled our credit card before any charges could be applied to it and we did not pay the $498. We did however, sign the contract. The following is our post from page 45.

"I received a call today from Sarah Rutten, from IVC, with a caller ID for R & R Venture Group, asking to complete the authorization and processing on “my contract”.

I informed her that I did not have a contract because I didn’t pay the contract closing fee, and I cancelled all authorized payments on the “proposed” contract, making is null and void. She insisted that I still had a contract “in their system” and that they never received a written cancellation notice within 3 business days of the signed agreement, and that I must send a notice in writing in order to cancel. My letter does not acknowledge that a contract still exists because I didn’t pay the closing fee, and I cancelled the “authorized” payment within 24 hours. I told her my assumption was that they would receive that cancellation notice via the Credit Card Authorization process and would have to accept that as their written notice.

Note that their Contract #540714 was used on both the IVC purchase form and the VSI membership form, even though they are supposedly different companies.

Meanwhile, we have already filed a complaint with the Michigan Attorney General’s Consumer Protection office." Since then we have not received any additional communication. If you have successfully stopped your credit card payments then hopefully you are safe from this scam.

Good luck and thanks to all whom are trying to stop these immoral, corrupt jackasses.

To janv76, ruthf68 and anyone that thinks they were scammed or being scammed now by one of these companies, Grand Leisure Holidays, IVC, R&R Venture Group, Point Rental Liquidators-PRL, Excess Property Solutions-EPS, R&R Closings, Getaway Marketing, R&R Medical Group or VSI Vacation Services International. The are owned by Robert Guy Russell, Nonna Russell & Brandon B.J. Cooke. They run the credit Cards the Monday or Wednesday after the week you went to the meeting. So in most cases you have a week before they run your card. Call your card company ASAP. If you can't do it then, tell them that you told the salesperson the next day and that he said he would take care of it . Or, you called the office in Las Vegas and told Sarah Rutten, Lisa Jacobe or Guy Russell that you are canceling your contract and or you faxed it in to the Las Vegas Office the next day, or talked to B.J. Cooked that night or next day, and/or went into the meeting place the next day and they took your contract back and say they would cancel it with with the Las Vegas Office the next Morning. Sarah Rutten is just a phone person that answers the phone for all the companies listed here, she can't do anything to change or help you. She is just office help.

You can cancel anytime if you think that fraud took place, ANYTIME.

The more you call the better your chances. _________________________________________

Guy Russell William "Bill" Redford Jeffrey Thompson Marketing Director Vegas 702-431-7770 Lisa Jacobe

Kesha Turner (Marketing Director Atlanta, GA) 855-874-8785 VSI - Office ext 105

6132 West Sahara Ave Las Vegas, NV 89146

Doctors Express 655 South Green Valley Suite 10, Henderson, NV 702-431-7337

PLEASE FILE WITH YOU AG's Office TODAY !!!!!!

Good Luck To You All

I have reason to believe they are using information people are posting on this forum to find ways to convince the credit card companies to deny the disputes. And/or information that we are emailing to people that are posing as someone that is trying to help or get help for themselves.

Nothing that anyone has posted in here can help them convince the credit card companies in their favor. They have dealt with the credit card companies so long that they are good at it. Everyone dealing with a dispute has to be dilligent and aggressively fight their cases and they will probably prevail. You have to fight harder than the scammers and in some cases get a lawyer to intercede on your behalf. They are banking on the assumption that you will give up the fight and they will win. Keep up the fight.

The scammer don't have to respond to the dispute notices from the credit card companies, and in most cases, they do not respond to the credit card companies. They are hoping that the credit card companies do one of two things: credit the money or some of the money back to the complaining customer even though they do not get the money back from the scammers; or just deny the customer's dispute by saying they cannot determine if the customer has received what the contract said he/she bought. It is incumbant on the scammed customer to develop and present a case to prove that they have not received the contract promises. Whatever it takes to do that should be done.

Only when credit caard companies have to credit all of the monies called into dispute will they truly send their legal teams affter these scammers. A high percentage of these losses will make the credit card company's insurance carriers put pressure on the card companies to take legal means to recover their loses.

It is also important to notify AGs and the FTC. This type of scamming is a violation of consumer protection and federal trade laws. In this case it includes a violation of the RCI trademark and name in order to "herd" people into the meetings. That is why RCI has once again filed a lawsuit against the very people that are doing this. It is important that you make sure that this lawsuit is mentioned in your documentation to your credit card company, the state AG you file with, and in your complaint to the Federal Trade Commission. These organizations need to continually hear that there is a large and respected company (RCI) that accepts the fact that these scammers are using their name and trademarks to lure people into their trap and have made the decision that legal action is necessary and appropriate to protect their reputation in the marketplace and bring a stop to this misuse of their name and standing. RCI's lawsuit is also requesting compensation for these violations.

Just keep communicating with your credit card companies.

I would also suggest that you set up some standard emails to all of the scam parties and everyday send those emails to scammers. If we all do that, we will clog up their emails and they will have to sort through all of these emails to actually find what they really should be working on.

Try this email approach. It is lots of fun, relieves some tension, and you will soon get a call for someone at these companies asking you to stop and maybe looking for what will buy you off. I know I have had fun doing it, and it takes very little time.

You should do the same thing with voice mails to the companies and people involved.

I agree completely with John and i want to ad to one of his points. You should hound the credit card company too. Be relentless and make a pest of yourself that they want you to go away and they will realize that they are dealing with someone who can make trouble for them. Sometimes it's as easy as having an attorney write them a forceful letter. It might cost a few dollars to hire an attorney to do it unless you know one that will help you for free. One more time....... the squeaky wheel gets the grease !!

Ruth..... what was the merchant name on the account that they ran your credit card through for the charge ?

That is not BJ Cooke's phone number. That is the phone number of the wife he left. Do not call her--she has nothing to do with any of this and does not communicate with him.

Fixed B.J. Cooke's phone number. Thanks for letting me know. I replaced his with a new one.

Thank you!!

This was just listed on Craigslist - Las Vegas It's a ad from R&R Venture Group & PRL looking for a marketing person. The Marketing Director quit there last week. The new Marketing Director is Jeffrey Thompson ___________________________________________________________ TELEMARKETER - RESERVATION AGENT (Las Vegas Valley) Part Time in a DRUG FREE ENVIRONMENT

Must be motivated, responsible, take initiative and be a self starter. Neat and Clean in appearance but casual work attire.

Telemarketing and/or timeshare experience a plus but not necessary.

Must have transportation and be able to work scheduled times and days, which are: Thursday through Monday 1pm to 7pm Paid Weekly -- Every Friday Hiring Contact Person: Jeffrey Thompson Location: Las Vegas Valley Compensation: $9.00 an hour vs commission and bonus whichever is highest Hiring Organization: Jeffrey Thompson

Hey all, Just got a phone call from "Leisure Getaway Industries" and they are planning a meeting in Christiansburg, VA for next week. July 9,10,11. I talked to "Rebecca" who gave me a local number. NOW, who do I call? They deny association with either RCI or Interval. I "signed up" for the 11th but have no intention of going. (Please do not ask me to!). But I did want to send this out for ideas as to what else to do.

To Susanc924, 1. They are not in association with either RCI or Interval International. 2. They are not apart of R&R Venture Group or PRL / EPS 3. They don't work for Guy Russell or B.J. Cooke. 4. I'm not going to ask you to go. BUT, Where was there meeting planned? It also could be a SCAM.

susanc924 wrote:

Hey all, Just got a phone call from "Leisure Getaway Industries" and they are planning a meeting in Christiansburg, VA for next week. July 9,10,11. I talked to "Rebecca" who gave me a local number. NOW, who do I call? They deny association with either RCI or Interval. I "signed up" for the 11th but have no intention of going. (Please do not ask me to!). But I did want to send this out for ideas as to what else to do.

boobier wrote:

To Susanc924, 1. They are not in association with either RCI or Interval International. 2. They are not apart of R&R Venture Group or PRL / EPS 3. They don't work for Guy Russell or B.J. Cooke. 4. I'm not going to ask you to go. BUT, Where was there meeting planned? It also could be a SCAM.

susanc924 wrote:

Hey all, Just got a phone call from "Leisure Getaway Industries" and they are planning a meeting in Christiansburg, VA for next week. July 9,10,11. I talked to "Rebecca" who gave me a local number. NOW, who do I call? They deny association with either RCI or Interval. I "signed up" for the 11th but have no intention of going. (Please do not ask me to!). But I did want to send this out for ideas as to what else to do.

Well, I am pretty sure it is a scam as the vague same language was used except they did not mention RCI. It is scheduled to be at O'Charleys in Christiansburg, VA July 9-11. Three sittings per day sounds like. They are sending me an email confirmation which I will forward to the group when I get it. Same vague "deal" - letting customers know about new "changes."

Keep us posted, Could be another group following in R&R Ventures foot steps. Good work.