Marriott Going to Point Syst

The annual option is the current points option which is only available to people who bought direct, the new option is permanaently in points.

Someone stated converting to points will make their ownership more valuable. I don't see how that will be true. The DRI Collections contracts(pure points with multiple locations) are worth less than the deeded contracts (only one resort). I think if you look at WVR you will see they have been successful in converting the vast majority of the weekly owners to points and yet the points contracts are just as low priced as the weeks contracts.

The lasrgest reason the Marriott points sytem will result in lower value is due to the fact that your new ownership will contain fewer points than the number of points required to stay at your resort. I know Marriott has said you will not need the full point value to stay at your resort, but look at it this way: Two people stay in weeks, two others go to points. Not including the benefit of dividing a lockout to potentially secure a larger unit, in general the two weeks owners with the same level of resort/unit (but where they own at different resorts) will be able to exchange without an issue. However, the two points owners who receive 9,000 points where their units both require 10,000 points will not be able to use each other's units any longer. Marriott benefits but the owners don't. Not only will Marriott be able to sell more ownership from skimming, they will also talk existing owners into buying more points just so they can use what they should have been able to use without buying more.

Someone posted a spread sheet on another timeshare site concerning the points allocated to the different Marriott resorts and seasons below (copy and paste URL):

http://www.box.net/shared/tzktn8cfcf#/shared/tzktn8cfcf/1/46596552/465031952/1

This is another example of someone making up how the plan doens't work. If you have a deeded property you can use your week or trade it at II like you have always done. It makes no sense to trade your unit for points and then use it at the home location nor does it make sense to trade it for points if you wish a whole week someone in a similar size unit. The points are nifty for partial weeks or when staying in a property of lessor value.

Come on guys if you are going to share some info then how about staring with how the plan actually works.

I agree that it does not make a lot of sense to trade your unit in for points, and then try to use those points to get back into your home resort. However, that is simply one example of the inequality of the point values that are arbitrarily assigned. Even if you decide to trade in your unit and then use the points elsewhere, those points are worth much less on a relative basis.

Furthermore, the claim by Marriott that you can use and trade your deeded week like you always have is totally misleading. Please do not be persuaded by this propaganda. Simple supply and demand indicates that if weeks are traded in for points rather than being deposited with Interval International, THEN THERE WILL BE LESS WEEKS FOR TRADES. Therefore, you will not be able to trade as you always have. Further, it is obvious that Marriott will no longer put unsold inventory onto II as in the past, thus further reducing the inventory for trades.

thomasn15 wrote:

I agree that it does not make a lot of sense to trade your unit in for points, and then try to use those points to get back into your home resort. However, that is simply one example of the inequality of the point values that are arbitrarily assigned. Even if you decide to trade in your unit and then use the points elsewhere, those points are worth much less on a relative basis.

Furthermore, the claim by Marriott that you can use and trade your deeded week like you always have is totally misleading. Please do not be persuaded by this propaganda. Simple supply and demand indicates that if weeks are traded in for points rather than being deposited with Interval International, THEN THERE WILL BE LESS WEEKS FOR TRADES. Therefore, you will not be able to trade as you always have. Further, it is obvious that Marriott will no longer put unsold inventory onto II as in the past, thus further reducing the inventory for trades.

I own points with DRI and am able to make reservations in their point systems. I have not had problems with Marriott in their weeks systems. However, here's where there are problems with both systems. When you don't make your reservations in a timely fashion. That's it. When you try to book highly demanded times in both weeks or points and you have waited four, five or even six months out, you will have challenges in making reservations. I can see inventory for Ko Olina right now and there is inventory open for every week in 2011 right now, even for the summer June and up to July of last week. That will change a little with points only because more people will be in the system. If you plan early, I don't believe there will be an issue.

j227 wrote:

This is another example of someone making up how the plan doens't work. If you have a deeded property you can use your week or trade it at II like you have always done. It makes no sense to trade your unit for points and then use it at the home location nor does it make sense to trade it for points if you wish a whole week someone in a similar size unit. The points are nifty for partial weeks or when staying in a property of lessor value.

Come on guys if you are going to share some info then how about staring with how the plan actually works.

I think you misunderstood what I wrote, if you understood you avoided clarifying why you claim I and others are making things up.

Contrary to your claim, once you convert from weeks to points you will not be able to trade thru II as you have always done. Marriott wants you to use your points in their internal system. While internal availability is almost always better than exchange availability, which I agree could be an improvement, I am willing to believe points owners will no longer have the 24 day priority thru II. Further, specifically because points owners will have fewer points than their unit requires for another owner to reserve at, Marriott owners will most certainly have difficulty reserving units since what they own can't reserve as much if you stay at locations other than where you own. This is a clear fact and reality which is proven by my personal experience with other point systems with similar dual point setup.

I agree points are a nifty way to reserve partial weeks, but II already allows this for Gold weeks members, thus reducing the value of going into Marriott Points. I agree points are a nifty way to stay at other resorts requiring fewer points, but fewer points by definition indicate lower trade power. By splitting a LO you accomplish this thru II Weeks by using a Studio to get a sub 45 day (I think it's 45) 2BR reservation, or at times a 1BR for a 2BR even if more than 45 days in advance. So your simple claim about how points are better is not a simple slam dunk as to why people should convert to points.

Don't get me wrong, I like points. they are easier to understand and points sytems usually provide all units up front for first come first serve reservations (I specifically am aware of DRI appearing to manipulate the points inventory pool and for some reason the Worldmark system appears to have shortages which clear up as checkin times near) .

I am against dual point systems though, for reasons I've already stated.

You say "It makes no sense to trade your unit for points and then use it at the home location nor does it make sense to trade it for points if you wish a whole week someone in a similar size unit.". I agree to your first comment, but that isn't any argument I made. That's a Marriott selling point where an owner in points will not be required to pay the higher point value at their resort. It's your second point I find puzzling. It sounds to me as though you are of the opinion no one would use their points from a 2BR at Marriott Newport to stay at a Marriott Maui 2BR. That's almost the entire concept of timesharing at other locations, regardless of whether you are a weeks or points owner. So if you have two owners at different resorts where they both get 9,000 pts but their units require outside Marriott owners to pay 10,000, neither owner will be able to stay at each other's resort. If you like that idea, I'm very afraid!

I kinda like the points when I think of what my 2b lock off (mountain) at Ko Olina can do. My lock off always gave me two exchanges with II and that was good. But my week which is valued at 4025 pts is worth FOUR 1bd villas in Vail (January). 1000 pts for seven nights at Marriott's Streamside. I'll bet I could get some pretty attractive exchanges with II. Right now as we speak they are available so I'm not so convinced that points are a bad thing.

You make an excelent point for the benefit of points, I'm just not certain a lot of people will trade KoOlina for four 1BR units in CO on an annual basis.

Your 4025 pts will not get you a Newport Coast 2BR during the summer (4225-5675 pts) which you could have gotten via the current II weeks exchange, and during off season you can only get one 2BR (2900 pts) whereas by splitting your LO it is very possible to get two Newport Coast 2BR units thru II Weeks. I've gotten 2BR units here using studios for exchange.

In pts you also can't get a Maui Ocean Club 2BR MV which starts at 4700 pts. I just got two Maui Ocean Club 2BR units in Lahaina Tower (which starts at 5,500 pts) this last month, one for 11-18 July and another for the first week of September. I used a 2BR Ford's Colony Silver (prob 2000-2500 pts) and a 1BR Desert Spings Gold (1200-2500 pts) to get these reservations!

So yes, there are cases where you can make it work better with Marriott points. But for most reservations which are more likely it looks very likely to be a bad deal.

As deeded owners we have it made. We can still get to where we purchased -- which for a huge percentage of us is where we want to go most of the time. And we can continue to trade weeks with II. And if we have the option of purchasing into the vacation points program.

How about those new owners who can only purchase points. Good luck on getting into Grande Ocean or other high demand locations during peak periods when a large percentage of owners actually go there. In addition, to get to Newport Coast one would have to pay about 43K to get enough points to go there in the summer plus a mtce fee (at 40 cents per point) would be about 1600 vs the 1100 deeded owners pay.

So while some deeded owners are crabbing about their situation it is really the new points owners who will be receving less value. Thus, if someone actually wishes to get to a pariticular location they would be better off purchasing a deeded week on the open market. The price would be far less, the mtce fee would be less, and they would actually get to where they wish to go -- and they can still trade their week with Interval International.

j227 said: > So while some deeded owners are crabbing about > their situation it is really the new points owners who > will be receving less value.

I agree with you that the new program is a bad deal - especially for new points owners. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I can't see myself joining given my pattern of using my home resorts.

j227 said: > Thus, if someone actually wishes to get to a > particular location they would be better off > purchasing a deeded week on the open market. > The price would be far less, the mtce fee > would be less, and they would actually get to where > they wish to go -- and they can still trade their week > with Interval International.

Very true --- UNLESS Marriott decides to now start playing games with purchasers of resale weeks (as has been reported by someone in an earlier message). If Marriott now decides to limit the reservation ability for purchasers of resale weeks, then it is a different ball game. Not sure if Marriott would be able to legally do that however.

We never in a million years thought we would buy a timeshare. In 2001 while visiting Maui we fell in love with Marriott had done to the resort and knew we would enjoy owning there and we have ever since. We are EOY owners and can't wait to go when it's our year. We bought Marriott because they were different than the others, this makes me sad that they are trying to BE like the others with this darn point system. Will it affect me even though I won't be converting? I guess time will tell, it's all speculation. My point is this(no pun); Marriott has such a quality product that I thought classed up timeshares, they took the slimmy out but now I'm not so sure. When we go next year I'll be able to tell more when I listen to the reps and how they sell. THAT will be telling. Yes there are stories of the reps who over selled, personally I never had that experience any time I went and listened. We have 5 friends who have purchased based on our referral. That is how much we believed in the product they sell. I am against the whole point system because we've seen and experienced for ourselves via people we know how crummy that is!

So last year while in Maui at one of the owner meetings they told us that Maui had the largest percentage of returning owners and I figure most won't want to convert if that is the case. So how are they going to sell inventory there? If we go and see a bustling selling frenzie then I'll know somethings up. It should be rather quiet over there in my opinion. If not, then it's worth auditing.

I am a 5 week owner (all purchased through Marriott). I am considering paying the $695 and signing up for the new program, just to get the: (1) no fee for lockoffs; (2) no fee for Interval International membership; (3) no fee for Marriott to Marriott trades through II; (4) no fee for canceling or changing reservations at my home resort; and (5) no fee for trading into Marriott hotel points. Plus, they will give 800 points in the new program (worth a few night), just to sign up. BUT I WOULD PLAN TO NEVER ACTUALLY RELINQUISH MY UNITS FOR POINTS.

Is there a flaw in my strategy that I am missing by doing this?

thomasn15 said: > (2) no fee for Interval International membership; > (3) no fee for Marriott to Marriott trades through II;

Under the scenario you describe, you may end up paying more in fees - not less. My understanding is that you will still need to maintain a separate Interval International account (and pay the same II membership and trading fees as before) if you intend to continue doing trades outside of the new points system (even Marriott to Marriott trades). The Interval International account provided via the points program can only be used for points-based trading. Please let me know if you discover that I am wrong about this point.

CORRECTION: Information below seems to indicate that my understanding is wrong. A second II account is not required.

You do NOT need two Interval memberships.

I spoke to a Marriott representatives (so his explanation may or may not be accurate), but he specifically said that the traditional "Marriott to Marriott trades" within II (not points based trading) will no longer have a transaction fee for owners who enroll in the new points program. Also, only one II membership is needed, as in the past, but the annual II membership fee will be included as part of the annual fee ($165, or $199) for owners that enroll in the new Marriott points program. (I did notice in the fine print, however, that Marriott reserves the right to charge additional fees in the future, at their discretion.)

My question is, given the savings of not having to pay for lockoffs, II membership, Marriott to Marriott trades, cancellations, etc., is it a good idea to enroll in the new program, even though I do not plan to relinquish my units for the new points? Further, will I be signing away future rights (such as the ability to sell or rent out my units) if I agree to the new program?

You can still sell or rent your week. That has not been affected.

You can do everything you did before. You have a choice of taking advantage of what the points program has to offer or you can continue to do what you did before and still be in the points program. The only difference with the points program you have to pay the extra $165 or $199 per year to be in the points program.

I found another discussion thread which seems to confirm that Marriott-to-Marriott trades through Interval International (not using points) will not require a separate II account and additional fees.

see http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125907

thomasn15 said: > Further, will I be signing away future rights (such as > the ability to sell or rent out my units) if I agree to > the new program?

If your focus is just on saving various fees, perhaps your idea makes sense. But one thing you will be forfeiting is your voting rights as an owner. Voting restrictions are placed on current owners when they enroll in the points program. You must agree to never vote against Marriott. It is quite an insidious contract clause that most people will ignore/dismiss. If enough weeks owners enroll, then Marriott can take complete control of the board of directors at a given resort. Marriott can then make changes at will and raise maintenance fees without opposition.

So I need someone to explain to me why I would want to pay Marriott more money just to be able to book a partial week? Owners spent significant amounts of money the first time around plus pay substantial maintenance fees and now we are supposed to be excited about BUYING points to get to stay for a partial week? I really don't get it. After talking to a Marriott rep. I don't think they get it either.

There is a reason Marriott reps are having difficulty providing a meaningful spin on 'what does points do for you?' Marriott, for the most part, sold out all properties (there are some exceptions). They spent 26 years finding out what weeks people want. Then, they cherry picked the weeks out of each location, charging much higher points for the prime weeks - weeks that have already been sold out, but now will be much less available (if at all) to the weeks people. Marriott, having already sold 100% of a given property, gains the "right" to sell it again due to the 20-30% (or more) inflation for the desirable weeks.

Points don't work for owners returning to their resort for the reasons noted previously (Marriott didn't provide enough points for you to get the weeks you already bought). Points don't work for people who trade (again, not enough points to get what you got before via II trades). Amazingly, points work for those who bought on the resale market at 20 cents on the dollar in order to rent - if they built a sufficiently large portfolio, they can get the prime weeks (via Premier and Premier Plus reservation advantage) and rent them out at prime prices. It will take data to prove all of this, but you can do the math with the data available. The only data currently available is the points being charged to reserve a week (and the points that YOU get for YOUR week - they would not answer 'what points would an owner that owned xxx type week get?'). I bought MDS White - access to 20 weeks per year. The points offered would give me access to 6 of those weeks. If I buy more points, I get access to more weeks that I had already bought access to when I first paid them. This is the story for 95-98% of the 400,000+ owners (shortage of points unless they buy more). By getting people to convert to points and use points, they can sell a second time what they already sold out previously. What a deal.