Get out of Westgate Resorts

Did you pay the $900-950 everyone is quoting in here?

robertc1852 wrote:

We used Westgate's legacy program to terminate ownership of property that our parents left to us in a Trust. It went fine. You do have to pay an "administration" fee and have all dues current, but it was worth it. Our original plan was to just stop paying and ride the wave of harassing collection calls, but having it gone is SUCH a relief! BTW - I think Westgate established the legacy program because of so much bad press on their unwillingness to help folks depart. I think this will help their sales going forward.

Did you pay the $900-950 everyone is quoting in here?

robertc1852 wrote:

I think Westgate established the legacy program because of so much bad press on their unwillingness to help folks depart. I think this will help their sales going forward.

I respectfully disagree. Historically, Westgate couldn't possibly care less about bad press and their retail sales are going just fine and are actually up for the year, for reasons that I cannot even begin to comprehend.

My own opinion is that Wastegate has belatedly adopted the Legacy program for their own convenience and profit. Foreclosure, although not at all difficult for them, still takes a little time and money to accomplish and finalize. Collecting $950 instead to willingly take back the deed easily, quickly and cleanly is plainly in Wastegate's own self-interest (and is profitable to boot).

Also, a deedback program helps Wastegate (and / or any other developer) avoid having to untangle the legal mess created when people foolishly pay (lots more than $950) to phony "Viking Ship" and / or bogus "exit / release" operations which only muddy the waters without a clean and / or valid transfer of ownership.

Actually $700. Don't ask me why.

ken1193 wrote:

robertc1852 wrote:

I think Westgate established the legacy program because of so much bad press on their unwillingness to help folks depart. I think this will help their sales going forward.

I respectfully disagree. Historically, Westgate couldn't possibly care less about bad press and their retail sales are going just fine and are actually up for the year, for reasons that I cannot even begin to comprehend.

My own opinion is that Wastegate has belatedly adopted the Legacy program for their own convenience and profit. Foreclosure, although not at all difficult for them, still takes a little time and money to accomplish and finalize. Collecting $950 instead to willingly take back the deed easily, quickly and cleanly is plainly in Wastegate's own self-interest (and is profitable to boot).

Also, a deedback program helps Wastegate (and / or any other developer) avoid having to untangle the legal mess created when people foolishly pay (lots more than $950) to phony "Viking Ship" and / or bogus "exit / release" operations which only muddy the waters without a clean and / or valid transfer of ownership.

I agree with what you say. Yes, no doubt it is easier for Westgate to just collect a fee to buy the property back than to go through the collection effort. At first, we were willing to deal with the collection ride after Westgate said "no" to our first attempt to exit. But we made one last attempt and they said "yes". For our situation, it was worth getting the asset out of a trust we wanted to close.

I suppose we could debate the motives behind Westgate's change of heart, but I still think they are affected greatly by the number of exit companies. Publicly, they, along with several other companies, have cited these companies as a contributing factor to a much higher default rate. From Wyndham's financial statements, they are very vocal about this. Their provision for defaults now is over 20%! That means that they don't expect to collect 20 cents of every dollar loaned out. That's crazy! They also say that their marketing costs are skyrocketing. The biggest component I saw in the price of a new timeshare is the cost of convincing someone to buy it — nearly 60% of the price of a timeshare is driven by sales and marketing costs. While timeshare companies have cleaned up some of their sales practices, they still rely on intensive marketing and impulse buys by consumers who are often already on vacation. I have also seen studies that say 85% of the folks that buy a timeshare later regret it. I don't know where you live, but in our area, there are many commercials EVERYDAY about exit companies. This HAS to have some impact on sales. Wyndham, who is public, has said as much. For what it is worth, our parents also had property with Wyndham but they were very reasonable to deal with. Westgate was horrible which makes me think that all the things troubling Wyndham applies to Westgate times two given their relative difficulty to deal with as a consumer.

So yes, sales are up. But much of that is driven by 1) a strong economy, 2) much stronger armed sales tactics, and 3) more stupid people who now have extra money and don't know how to put pen to paper before spending their hard earned money.

I agree with everything that you have articulated above. My primary intended point was simply that Westgate is entirely profit driven and doesn't care one bit about bad press or "image"; they never have and they never will. That includes initiating (and ultimately losing) unproductive and expensive litigation. The Wastegate programs and decisions are driven by profit and operational convenience --- and little if anything else. Their business is thriving and CEO David "SeaGull" Siegel is thriving too, despite the fact that the aggressive Wastegate sales force is arguably the most deceitful in the entire industry, except perhaps for the (even worse) timeshare sales practices conducted south of the border in Mexico. Sadly, for whatever reason(s), the old saying that "a fool and his money are soon parted" is repeatedly proven to be true every day in the sales pens of Westgate Resorts.

robertc1852 wrote:

Publicly, they, along with several other companies, have cited these companies as a contributing factor to a much higher default rate.

They are entitled to their opinion as is everyone else including me but I don't think these so-called "exit" companies contribute to a higher default rate. People are defaulting because they own something that is of negative value and can't sell or give it away unless they give the new owner some "incentive". The "exit" companies are there because owners are looking to get out from their timeshares but, up until recent years, the resorts and timeshare companies in general were not willing to help out.

As was pointed out several times before on these boards, Westgate and others (Diamond, Wyndham, etc.) are initiating their respective deed back programs because it is easier for them to take units back directly from owners than it is for them to deal with these "exit" companies. As much as many people criticize timeshare companies, this is actually a pretty shrewd move on the companies' part.

I contacted Westgate's Legacy Department yesterday to do a deedback on my Westgate Vacation Villas timeshare. I bought the timeshare in 1991, it's fully paid for and I've paid annual maintenance fees on time. The guy put me on hold for a long time and then came back and told me their inventory was full and would not accept my timeshare. He suggested I try in 6 months. What's my recourse now?

They followed up with this email.

Dear Valued Owner, Thank you for contacting Westgate Resorts Developer Services Department. We are in receipt of your submitted request expressing an interest in the Voluntary Deed Back Program.

Please be advised that upon further reviewing your timeshare ownership, the Developer has decided to respectfully decline your request for Voluntary Deed Back of account # XXXXXXXXXX.

Should you have any questions, please email Developer Services at Developerservices@wgresorts.com Sincerely,

Developer Services

Westgate Resorts

Wow! That's amazing. So much for the suggestion that the Legacy Program is just another way for Westgate to make money.

Rather than wait 6 months, I would send them an inquiry every 30-45 days. I'd include any specific circumstances that are contributing to your decision to terminate. Do this all in writing so that if you want to eventually just stop paying, you have a paper trail that shows how unfair they are being. We were also turned down on our first attempt (pre Legacy) but decided to give it one last try before we played hard ball. Good luck! I'm sure this industry is headed for a train wreak given their practices and business model, but it won't happen until the Siegels move on. Being in their 80's, right now they don't care.

A couple of other suggestions would be to try to give it away yourself. List it here in RedWeek's Bargain Basement. Also, you could try E-Bay, My Resort Network, Craigslist, or Timeshare Users Group (aka "TUG"; tugbbs.com) which has a Bargain Deals section that allows owners to advertise for free that they want to give their unit away.

Adding to Robert C.'s suggestion above, if you contact the resort again, mention in no uncertain terms that you are not paying another penny in maintenance fees and that it would be in everybody's best interests to take the unit back amicably. You might offer to pay the closing costs as an incentive.

Of course, it goes without saying, do not pay any company, charity, or law firm a large, upfront fee to get rid of this unit for you.

I think all of Lance C.'s suggestions are good although anecdotally, I have heard it is hard to give it away, but there's no harm in trying. You never know.

I appreciate that everyone's situation is different. Fortunately, for us, the property was in an irrevocable trust that gave us leverage and protection if we had decided to just walk away. That is what our lawyer advised (for free). As Lance says, I would definitely NOT pay a large upfront fee to anyone. My gut tells me that you will end up eventually paying something to someone to exit, but the option of persistent pressure on Westgate will most likely be the least costly, even if you end up paying maintenance fees for a few years. You also have a "clean" break with documentation from them. For us, the crossover point when compared to paying an upfront fee to a firm was about 4 years.

I was quoted $2000 to go through the Voluntary Deedback Program by Westgate. I plan to email them shortly and advise I will not be paying another penny in maintenance fees and that, as stated above, it would be in their interest to take it back.

Thanks for your responses. We did try to sell our timeshare a couple of years ago and also have tried to give it away to friends or family, but no one is interested. My brother just went with a company called Timeshare Clearinghouse, so we'll see if that's a scam or not. Have you heard of anyone working with a timeshare attorney named Susan Budowski in Florida or Newton Group Transfers?

marjorieb50 wrote:

We did try to sell our timeshare a couple of years ago and also have tried to give it away to friends or family, but no one is interested. My brother just went with a company called Timeshare Clearinghouse, so we'll see if that's a scam or not. Have you heard of anyone working with a timeshare attorney named Susan Budowski in Florida or Newton Group Transfers?

Try listing it for free in RedWeek's Bargain Basement. You can also try listing it on E-Bay or My Resort Network. You said you tried to sell it. Why not say that you are willing to give it away to a new owner. If you're really serious about getting rid of your unit, offer an incentive such as paying the closing costs and maybe even the next maintenance fee. That will be cheaper than using any of the companies you listed.

You could also try asking the resort's Homeowners' Association if it will take your unit back. Westgate currently has a program in place where it is taking back some units from current owners. The cost to the owner is about $900 and the mortgage must be paid off with the maintenance fees up to date.

And you will be hard-pressed to find someone on here who recommends using any law firm, charity, or other company to get you out of your timeshare. Some are scams. Others just charge you thousands of dollars to do what you can do yourself.

Thank you for your response.

posted reply in the wrong thread sorry

Hi Ken and thanks for spending so much time answering questions here. I have found your posts very helpful. I won't make this any longer than it has to be. I am trying to help my parents-in-law get out of their Westgate timeshare. They live in Brazil and bought a unit in Florida through Westgate in Brazil. I don't know the whole story but it seems Westgate's claws have a far reach.

In one posting you say "Lack of resale value is largely due to reservation constraints that Westgate imposes on all their ownerships which were acquired in the resale market."

Can you explain what are the reservation constraints that Westgate imposes on resale units?

Thanks,

D

I stopped paying Westgate for three months now and they now placed our account in collection.

Will they attempt to take us to court?

Will it ruin my credit? And end up not getting approved for Parents Plus Loans (college) for my kids?

Please advise. Thank You

evao6 wrote:

I stopped paying Westgate for three months now and they now placed our account in collection.

Will they attempt to take us to court?

Will it ruin my credit? And end up not getting approved for Parents Plus Loans (college) for my kids?

Chances are slim that they will take you to court. What you owe might not be worth their time and effort.

As for ruining credit, there have been many varying reports about what timeshare companies do in this regard.

I plan to do the same, good luck.