Is Montecristo Estates sold out & what Pueblo Bonito was selling the last units for

Dirk, we all know that you are an employee there and it is great that you or someone is communicating with us. Why dont you talk to the powers that be about a Resale Dept. A lot of these folks would like to sell their units for just what they paid like me. I paid 60,000 in 2004 and would sell for a lot less. You guys could sell them on site for over 100,000 and make a huge profit. Just a thought and if anyone is interested they can have mine for $49,900.

donce --

It doesn't work that way. Have you ever met a residential developer/builder who sells new homes to be in the business of buying back houses they sell. No, resales are always handled by realty companies that specialize in resales. The truth is that we should be happy (I am) that the Pueblo Bonita LCC is selling new ones for twice what I paid for mine and the new ones don't have anywhere near the view my villa has!

The truth is that those selling their units on this forum are doing a very poor job of selling it. Get real folks. Pueblo Bonita LCC spends thousands of dollars -- i.e. $300 just to attend a sales presentation, salesmen commissions of $1+K, etc, etc. to sell each villa. Redweek is little more than a line listing that costs pennies. Contrast that with what a realtor charges you to sell your house. When I last listed my house in California for sale I agreed to pay the realtor 6% or $120K in commission. They spent thousands in advertising, etc. trying to sell it and couldn't (because of the collapse in the real estate/financing debacle).

Yo Dirk --

Welcome to the forum. It's about time. I totally agree with what you say (though the exchange rate is now 13P to 1USD). But it is the PERCEPTION of what Mexico is all about now. The USA media exaggerates the threat to sell newspapers and attract eyeballs combined with the fact that Americans are wusses. The USA media portrays Mexico in a very negative light these days: Go to Mexico and you'll be killed in the cross fire of drug cartel wars, be kidnapped and held for ransom, or die of swine H1N1 flu.

Oh yes, and then there is how Cabo is portrayed during "hurricane" season. Anytime even a tropical storm develops off the west coast of Mexico the media starts reporting how Cabo is going to get wiped off the map. This "hurricane" season my wife and I were the ONLY travelers in the Cabo airport. And the most popular TV station in Sacramento was at the Mexicana counter doing a story about how nobody was going to Cabo because of the hurricane. I own a second house in Sarasota, Florida and know about "hurricanes" and know real hurricanes and how to easily hurricane proof buildings as does every resort in Cabo.

My wife and I were in the hot tub having a glass of wine enjoying the spectacular surf/ocean and our friends were calling us on our cell phone to tell us they saw us on TV describing the west coast of Mexico as joke-icanes (rained for about an hour and 35 mphr winds). Sad part was that all the US carriers canceled flights to Cabo for two days! Cabo was so empty for our two weeks at our villa that it was depressing seeing how the merchants, restaurants, timeshare salesmen... were hurting for business.

Mexico tourism has a huge image problem at the macro level. And now President Calderon proposes abolishing the Mexican Tourism Bureau to save money. Is he insane!? Ironically, while I was at my MC villa watching TV I'm seeing commercials by the Colombia Tourist Association promoting tourism to Colombia. Their Commercial end with the slogan "Colombia, the only danger is that you'll never want to go home". How many commercials did I see promoting tourism to Mexico. Nada.

Tell Ernesto to get his head out of his ... and use his clout with the Mexican government to address the bigger problem of reversing the negative imagine of Mexico.... or you and your fellow timeshare salesmen or the only timeshares/villas you and your cohorts are going to sell are to each other!

there is a good resale route using the company endorsed remax company.. 7 offices in mexico... and i believe in vegas, la, san diego.. with this difficult year coming to a close it hopefully will be a followed by a year where the golf and the clubhouse come to play and that will make the difference... i agree with you on your comment and will ask again..not sure why not.. all in all it continues in a direction of appreciation... and with more demand coming, should be in your favor for a resale.. i would stay patient.. lots of people have lost a lot of money in the US and their house or housing is worth 40% less... i just don't believe that monte cristo in its mid-stride should be sold.. its like trying to sell your US real estate now... is it smart to sell now? i don't think so... patience, grasshopper... but i will ask

i agree with what you say... totally.. you are right.. . the US media is greatly to blame for the over exaggerated "mexico is dangerous" theme... the three white elephants marched through us this year, namely, the swine flu, the drug cartels being somehow prevalent all over, and the general recession, did no one any favors.. especially investors like yourselves.. honestly, as a father of three who go to school in total normalcy, who have practices at night i find it almost embarrassing how easily these days the US public is duped by the sophisticated media.. just see a guy in handcuffs on the tv and he is automatically guilty.. there's just no basis..

we have done a lot to get mexico tourism portrait improved in the US... unfortunately, we don't apparently have the resources or the genius of the Obama campaign folks who were literally in everyone's facebook and email! ha ha the way i look at it, is the US will continue to get colder this year and the swine flu will seem so over and done with (i've had it and it sucks, but a couple days and you are good); and the drug cartels will eventually be correctly identified as border towns only .. with those in place, our tourism will come back to its huge boom we were on..

i can tell you this... we, neto, everyone involved is fully focused on finding the right money partners on RC and golf as the recession did some damage there for sure.. just back from chicago and some important VIP's on this.. stay tuned.. everyone is 100% focused on golf and knows we have been saying golf for a while and how important it all is in the total of quivira...

i can also tell you this.. man, the weather is nice here.. wow.. right now our resorts are pretty full and festive... its thanksgiving and we know the US is starting to now huddle down in cold weather.. our beaches had volleyball games, really blue ocean and right in front of our resort were four whales today.. the water is so clear that you can see the rocks to the left side of the resort clear as a bell.. wow, its just so nice.. beautiful sunsets and warm weather and calm wrinkled ocean... in the long run, the "product" , ie, the weather, people, overall setup, will just continue to win on those baby boomers... and if that is true, the demand should drive all real estate investments faster and better than your US counterpart real estate investments which are beleagered by mortgage issues, fluctuating markets , etc.. enjoy mis hermanitos.. saludos

As a Real Estate Developer myself and the owner of a Real Estate Company I can tell you that there are huge benefits to developers who not only sell new but exisiting product. The profit in a new build is small and that is why most of the time you pay very close to what the asking price is. On a resale that is in great shape like these are the profit potential is even greater because the equity is already there. I have unit 15, high on the hill with outstanding views. Can you imagine what kind of profit the developer and sales person could make by taking mine back for 50,000 and selling it to someone else for 120,000 or so. Its a no-brainer but they just wont do it. If you know of a legitimate company that has a track record for resales on these units let me know and I will contact them. I still love the place and will always go there, we have been going to Cabo for 20 years and have never had a bad vacation. I realize I could hold on for a year or two and get more but would rather sell now.

Dirk, glad to see a company rep here. I, for one, am very happy to be a part of montecristo. Some advice though, tell you salesmen to stop lying so much. the product sells itself.

Also, tell them to go easy with the mantenance fee increases... with peso devaluation your maintenance is already worth alot more now, adding another 6% every year might get a bit eggregious. don't forget, if you raise it above the cost to rent, the unit is actually worthless, and you'll never be able to sell another property if all the montecristo owners get burned.

GOOD POINT...I AGREE TOTALLY..

I THINK THEY ARE HOLDING THE MAINT FEE STEADY NOW... NO INCREASE, RIGHT? RIGHT NOW IT LOOKS LIKE INVESTORS FOR THE GOLF ARE STEPPING BACK INTO THE GAME.. IT HURT WHEN OUR GOLDMAN SACHS PARTNER DISAPPEARED ON SEPT 15 LAST YEAR IN ONE BLINK WHEN THE ECONOMY COLLAPSED IN US. BUT I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT MR COPPEL NEVER TOOK HIS EYE OFF THE BALL.. HE WANTS THE GOLF COURSES.. ITS BEEN DIFFICULT TO GET THAT DONE FOR SURE.. LETS HOPE THE MONEY PEOPLE STICK AROUND.. I REALLY WANT TO BE TEEING OFF ON THE BEACH AND THE CLIFFS AROUND THE TROY MOVIE SET... SALUDOS DIRK

No Dirk, the dues for my wife and I jumped 65 this year as well as every year that we have owned the Unit. are all dues going up 6% or are we and the first one to buy the privileged few, we started at 950.00 a week and i know that the goal of PB is the get us to where the last owners dues are (2000.00+ per week). How fair or right is this? Is it legal to raise some dues and not all?

Look at your original purchase documents. We bought in July 2007, and our documents state that our maintenance fees are tied to the US rate of inflation for the previous year, with a 6% cap. Last year the inflation rate was negative (unfortunately no decrease in maintenance fees). Perhaps your documents do not have the language which ties the maintenance fees to the US inflation rate. My guess is that our fees will go up once inflation kicks back in

I own Villa #8 and my contract number is within the first 60 contracts issued for Montecristo. We bought in July 2004. The exact wording of the contract I have regarding the increase in fees is as follows: The fees shall be increased annually in agreement with the National Index of Consumer Prices issued by the Banco de Mexico in the case of obligations being agreed upon in Mexican Pesos; and in agreement with the percentage of inflation rate recorded in the immediately previous year in the United Sates of america when the obligations are agreed-upon in US Dollars or any other foreign currency.

In this situation I am assuming that they are referring to previous year as 2009 for billing in 2010 - although they have to estimate somewhat as they do their billing before the end of the year. Payments are due by January 2,2010 unless you own in January and then they are due in December 15 days prior to use.

My family owns all of February of #109 as an investment property. All we have been able to rent our weeks out is $350 per night, but if they did 2 weeks $336 per night. I have been marketing these all year and I know the recession has a lot to do with it. I live here in Cabo and I see the potential the Motecristos have, but I do see one big problem with trying to rent out or sell a Montecristo -owner competition. Owners see other Montecristos being rented out at a lower price and they have to drop their prices to compete with other owners. This makes it like a business competitive market and that is not an investment. If there were some law about standard Montecristo pricing, it would work well, but we will never get the price we are looking for unless everyone who owns a Montecristo keeps the price where it should be.

Montecristo didn't have pictures of the phase 2 yet So I had to go take pictures myself and create my own video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eth5Rck0bDE

If you google "Montecristo Estates Phase 2" you will see our website with the video.

Good luck!

We bought a month in villa 15 from someone else who bought it in late 2004. Maintenance fee for us in 2006 was $4409 (4 weeks) including the 10% Fed VAT and 2% tourism tax (in 2007 the tourism tax went to 3%). Not entirely sure why a maintenance fee would be subject to value added or tourism tax but it is. Yesterday I paid $5200 (~185 per night) which is more than the year before but can't remember exactly by how much. So yes they are taking every opportunity to raise the maintenance fees 6% every year.

Maybe our buddy Dirk can answer if everyone is getting an equal percentage increase every year or if it is just the people with lower Maintenance fees. But I suspect that everyone is being hit on the increases? Would also be curious to see if Mexican owners in MC also pay the VAT and Tourism taxes.

But it is really all academic. What would you do? Take them to court in Mexico for a couple hundred bucks? They know that you won't. The number of lies associated with our ownership already has been really quite remarkable. Especially in regards to the golf. I go to the Quivera wine and cheese every year and am totally amazed that they ask me to trade up wiht a serious face. However, we jumped into this bed so I agree that we have no choice but to hang on. I lost a rental just the other day because the guy found out that he could swap his timeshare into MC for less than my maintenance fee. It would be nice if Ernesto and his sales mafia would accept some of the loss internally. But I really don't see that happening anytime soon. I guess I am fortunate that I bought in the aftermarket for considerably less than others.

If annamarie's numbers are correct phase 2 is almost twice what I am paying per week. 185 vs 350. So as MR T would say "I pity those souls" cause that is $127,400 per unit per year at minimum.

Hi!

My wife and I find the monthly payments too much to handle due to drastic changes in our financial situation after my wife lost her job. Add to that the maintenance fees and it's just too much. We've been paying and coming here for three years now, and truly enjoy the place, but we're stuck.

Anyone know of any options with Pueblo Bonito. Would they consider trading our "equity" from our deposit and several years of payments for a smaller unit like an Executive Suite and take our villa back into inventory? Or if we had to just walk away, what would happen? Has anyone contacted Pueblo Bonito directly with a similar situation?

We would welcome any responses.

Thanks! K&J

A few comments: You have a very attractive maintenance fee deal. We purchased 2 weeks of Villa 14 in 2005 when it was still under construction and our fees are a lot higher.

You and other owners seem to be bitter over the sales staff. Can anyone blame them for painting the most positive picture, isn't that their job? We too, had expected a better return on our investment and more rentals, but so be it. If anyone is to blame it is the purchaser. So far, we have enjoyed our stays and put the monetary issues to the side. We believe in the future of Monte Cristo as manifested by purchasing additional weeks in another villa (63).

One last comment: it is unfortunate that some owners list rental rates and purchase prices so low that they can undermine the exclusiveness of the resort. More on this subject in a separate memo

Bitter is a word that describes an intense animosity or cynicism. I have neither. I simply don't like being outright lied to. If you do then that is fine but you shouldn't lable someone else as being bitter for appreciating honesty over what are clearly car salesmen like tactics. It is a very good resort but not what was promised by any standard.

I gave those specific numbers to provide some transparency to an otherwise very opaque billing system. If you are paying more and you bought when you said you did then I encourage you to provide that detail so other owners, specifically MC2 will feel better about their purchase than when they read my numbers.

And I wouldn't be too hard on those people listing at rates to try to cover their maintenance fees. Some of those that I talked to bought in only because they were promised that they could easily get $1500 per night minimum any time of the year. Some of these are young couples on salaries that very much depended on what they were sold as being legitimate. You and I are fortunate that we can absorb the loss and wait it out but judging these people for just trying to keep from losing their property is, as you say, just as "unfortunate".

And finally, don't kid yourself, we, as owners who bought in as a rental investment in MonteCristo Estates are very much in competition with the Timeshare and Hotel sales and they know it. It was not supposed to be that way. We were promised alot of support from the resort that would have helped keep those rates high but never materialized. I eagerly await your separate memo on this subject because I have never been able to even break even on my month. In fact, you can swap time into MC from several other resorts and it will cost less than the maintenance fees we pay. I know of one guy who did that very thing just last year.

Anyone who buys into Montecristo Estates from a salesman at the resort has been taken to the cleaners. Not only by the lies they were told but also by paying up to 60% more than they could have paid by buying on the secondary market. I doubt if they would sell too many units if the salespeople would come out and mention that they have no idea when, and if, the golf course will be built, the purchaser could most likely find a unit for rent for the same price they will be paying for the maintenance of their unit, there will be no help in trying to sell your unit, there will be no help in trying to rent your unit, the maintenance fee will go up 6% a year and nothing else they might have told you is necessarily true unless you get it in writing and signed by 2 authorized people. Do you ever wonder why Pueblo Bonito doesn't have any resorts in the US? Maybe it is because they wouldn't be able to get away with the same business plan they have implemented in Mexico.

We traveled to Mexico late last year and were told that nothing could be done for us in cancelling our contract. My husband talked to Kirt and Dirk and finally they were able to cancel the contract but we forfeited our down. Because of circumstances changing in our lives, we were delighted and would not say one word against the sales team. They offered to let us use our down the next time we are in Cabo to buy up or more. If circumstances change for us, you can be sure that we will indeed do that because we love the units and we love the place. Just wanted to say that if you ask for a solution instead of complaining, perhaps you will have some positive outcome too. Thanks, Susan

Susan, I spent over 2 years trying to come up with a solution with nothing to show for it. I wish I would have only lost a down payment but I paid the entire amount off within 30 days in order to get the 5% discount. After going through the long list of lies I was told by our salesman all I got from them was a reference to that section of the small print that had to do with nothing the saleperson told us during the sales pitch having any basis unless it was in writing and signed by two authorized people. When I told them I had been contacted by others with the same problem I was threatened by Kurt that my contract would be cancelled with me ending up with nothing as I was "harrassing" them. They ended up doing just that, so I have nothing to show for a payment of $86,000. Still think I shouldn't be complaining?

I am here now and am having the 4th best vacation of my life. (1-3 were the first 3 times we came here). this is the nature of the timeshare, they all trade lower in the secondary market... who knew. but, can you find ANY fault with the way these things are built? or how beautiful the grounds are? or how about how attentive the staff is and how friendly everybody is?

I have been saying it since >I first bought, they should fire those salespeople. they lie through their teeth. I wanted to buy the montecristo as soon as I saw it, but the salesmen would not stop talking. And sure enough, when I realized everything he said was a lie, I felt tricked. I have worked in sales my entire life, and I know, that if you lie to people they will be unhappy with the sale as soon as they find out.

This is the nicest timeshare anywhere in cabo, and we should all just hope that ernesto does well with his future developments, so he stays in business, and can keep the quality of service as high as it is.