Against RCI/II Rules to Rent out Exchanges

jayjay wrote:

adahiscout wrote:

You mention the "good old days" when one could get a good exchange for a mediocre resort. I seem to remember seeing recommendation that folks new to timeshares run out and buy cheap resales that they don't want to use themselves and dump them on RCI. Maybe they did. MD

Exactly, the mantra back then was to buy a cheap resale with low maintenance fees and deposit it with RCI for much better trades. The days of buying a dog and getting a jewel in a trade are evidently over.

Seems fair to me. MD

kathi32 wrote:

I agree with Jayay - I think this whole idea is kind of silly.

Surely if it's true that some resorts ask the people checking into a resort on a guest certificate (for a week which was exchanged for), then for heavens sakes why would the person renting, gifting or whatever the week not warn those using it that they might be asked if they rented and if so, deny it or they might not be allowed to occupy the unit? That seems only a sensible thing to do.

I can't see any way that the resort would know or could find out the relationship of the occupier with the person who got the exchange unless they ask, and frankly, I don't think it's their business anyway.

People pay annual maintenance fees to their resorts for their weeks, and they pay fees to the exchange company to belong so they're qualified to make an exchange, and then they pay fees to actually make the exchange, and if they're going to let someone else use the week, then they pay for a guest certificate.

To the best of my knowledge, this questioning of 'guests' did not happen in the two instances where I exchanged for a week somewhere other than my home resort, and ended up having someone else use the reservation. I asked for and got (and paid for) guest certificates in both cases, and of course then the name on the reservation was changed to the guest's name. Neither guest reported any such type of questioning to me. But these were Marriott resorts in both cases - maybe Marriott is an anomoly and doesn't ask and everywhere else they do?

However, if in the future I ever have an exchange week I can't use for some reason, and someone else (my guest) is using it, I'll be sure to tell them if they're asked they should deny they rented it, or they might not get to stay. And I suggest others do likewise. That warning would seem to take care of any potential problems.

annec15 wrote:

kathi32 wrote:

I agree with Jayay - I think this whole idea is kind of silly.

Surely if it's true that some resorts ask the people checking into a resort on a guest certificate (for a week which was exchanged for), then for heavens sakes why would the person renting, gifting or whatever the week not warn those using it that they might be asked if they rented and if so, deny it or they might not be allowed to occupy the unit? That seems only a sensible thing to do.

I can't see any way that the resort would know or could find out the relationship of the occupier with the person who got the exchange unless they ask, and frankly, I don't think it's their business anyway.

People pay annual maintenance fees to their resorts for their weeks, and they pay fees to the exchange company to belong so they're qualified to make an exchange, and then they pay fees to actually make the exchange, and if they're going to let someone else use the week, then they pay for a guest certificate.

To the best of my knowledge, this questioning of 'guests' did not happen in the two instances where I exchanged for a week somewhere other than my home resort, and ended up having someone else use the reservation. I asked for and got (and paid for) guest certificates in both cases, and of course then the name on the reservation was changed to the guest's name. Neither guest reported any such type of questioning to me. But these were Marriott resorts in both cases - maybe Marriott is an anomoly and doesn't ask and everywhere else they do?

However, if in the future I ever have an exchange week I can't use for some reason, and someone else (my guest) is using it, I'll be sure to tell them if they're asked they should deny they rented it, or they might not get to stay. And I suggest others do likewise. That warning would seem to take care of any potential problems.

Maybe a way around this would be to post it like on ebay, where the sellers advertise something as free or almost free, but then charge outrageous handling or shipping fees. You could advertise your resort as a "gift" - just pay my maintenace fee but I have to charge 500.00 (or whatever you want to charge) for shipping and handling.

Why not just rent out the weeks we own and leave RCI out of it? No exchange fee, no Guest Confirmation fee (usually), and no rule against doing it. MD

Why not just rent out the weeks we own and leave RCI out of it? No exchange fee, no Guest Confirmation fee (usually), and no rule against doing it. MD

We could......but suppose you see a better week that might pull in more rent, or even has a better posibility of renting than the week you own?

A lot of folks may have very weak weeks ( first two weeks in December might be some) and see that they may not be able to rent the week for much...if anything.

But, if you can pick the best week in your float period....renting your week without touching an exchange company might really be good.

adahiscout wrote:

Why not just rent out the weeks we own and leave RCI out of it? No exchange fee, no Guest Confirmation fee (usually), and no rule against doing it.MD

Going by all the rental ads on Redweek, it's not as easy nor as profitable as many would think. You have to own a week that someone wants at a rental price they are willing to pay. Sounds simple, but that's the case.

jayjay wrote:

adahiscout wrote:

Why not just rent out the weeks we own and leave RCI out of it? No exchange fee, no Guest Confirmation fee (usually), and no rule against doing it.MD

Going by all the rental ads on Redweek, it's not as easy nor as profitable as many would think. You have to own a week that someone wants at a rental price they are willing to pay. Sounds simple, but that's the case.

It is still "simpler" than trying to rent out something that could get both us and the renter into hot water because we don't have the right to rent it. MD

Would seem that prohibiting an owner of a tangible contract, whether it's the original contract or an exchange reservation, from freely selling or exchanging that contract with another party, falls under "restraint of trade" or commerce or something. Would think that the ICC, maybe even the ACLU, might get involved in this case; the ACLU as the "free buying and selling of a purchased property right" ought to be a "civil liberty" or something similar in this country. Furthermore, if an advertisement to sell an exchanged-week reservation is prohibited by RCI, then RCI is denying the printed version of Free Speech.

By discriminating against timeshare owners, and also against RCI "Members", RCI has to be breaking some freedom of something laws in this country. They must be stopped from "having it both ways."

poroos wrote:

Would seem that prohibiting an owner of a tangible contract, whether it's the original contract or an exchange reservation, from freely selling or exchanging that contract with another party, falls under "restraint of trade" or commerce or something. Would think that the ICC, maybe even the ACLU, might get involved in this case; the ACLU as the "free buying and selling of a purchased property right" ought to be a "civil liberty" or something similar in this country. Furthermore, if an advertisement to sell an exchanged-week reservation is prohibited by RCI, then RCI is denying the printed version of Free Speech.

By discriminating against timeshare owners, and also against RCI "Members", RCI has to be breaking some freedom of something laws in this country. They must be stopped from "having it both ways."

Not necessarily, it states in RCI's Terms and Conditions that rentals of exchanges or selling of spacebanked weeks are not allowed (also II and the independents) so it's not just RCI. Terms and Conditions are what you agree upon when you become a member of any exchange company.

This policy is really for the benefit of an exchange company's membership. Some people could actually make a business of snapping up the best exchanges and renting them for profit.

A few years ago you would see rentals of exchanges and selling of spacebanked weeks on Ebay all the time. That's when the exchange companies stepped in and implemented the rule to put a stop to it. I'm sure part of it was due to member complaints.

jayjay wrote:

poroos wrote:

Would seem that prohibiting an owner of a tangible contract, whether it's the original contract or an exchange reservation, from freely selling or exchanging that contract with another party, falls under "restraint of trade" or commerce or something. Would think that the ICC, maybe even the ACLU, might get involved in this case; the ACLU as the "free buying and selling of a purchased property right" ought to be a "civil liberty" or something similar in this country. Furthermore, if an advertisement to sell an exchanged-week reservation is prohibited by RCI, then RCI is denying the printed version of Free Speech.

By discriminating against timeshare owners, and also against RCI "Members", RCI has to be breaking some freedom of something laws in this country. They must be stopped from "having it both ways."

Not necessarily, it states in RCI's Terms and Conditions that rentals of exchanges or selling of spacebanked weeks are not allowed (also II and the independents) so it's not just RCI. Terms and Conditions are what you agree upon when you become a member of any exchange company.

This policy is really for the benefit of an exchange company's membership. Some people could actually make a business of snapping up the best exchanges and renting them for profit.

A few years ago you would see rentals of exchanges and selling of spacebanked weeks on Ebay all the time. That's when the exchange companies stepped in and implemented the rule to put a stop to it. I'm sure part of it was due to member complaints.

OK. You have a point. But what about the restriction on guest certificates that prohibits members from giving them to anyone they wish? This is simply punitive. I can give a GC to my wife or daughter but not to an "outsider" unless the outsider wants to risk getting "carded" or quizzed at check-in.

If I put an ad on Craigslist to sell my exchanged week, is RCI going to cancel my account if they determine that it is my ad, an RCI member? Again, I say this is restraint of trade or something similar.

Hopefully, the pending class action against RCI will stop some of their punitive practices.

poroos wrote:

OK. You have a point. But what about the restriction on guest certificates that prohibits members from giving them to anyone they wish? This is simply punitive. I can give a GC to my wife or daughter but not to an "outsider" unless the outsider wants to risk getting "carded" or quizzed at check-in.

You can give an exchange to friends and family using a guest certificate. The only monies allowed to be reimbursed you are the exchange fee and guest certificate fee (under $200). Anything above that amount is considered profit making. And yes, anyone can be quizzed at check-in concerning their guest certificate .... it just depends on the resort. I've read that all Disney (onsite) resorts question how guest certificates are obtained.

BTW, there's a thread here where a member of II was suspended for renting exchanges. I'll see if I can find it.

jayjay wrote:

poroos wrote:

OK. You have a point. But what about the restriction on guest certificates that prohibits members from giving them to anyone they wish? This is simply punitive. I can give a GC to my wife or daughter but not to an "outsider" unless the outsider wants to risk getting "carded" or quizzed at check-in.

You can give an exchange to friends and family using a guest certificate. The only monies allowed to be reimbursed you are the exchange fee and guest certificate fee (under $200). Anything above that amount is considered profit making. And yes, anyone can be quizzed at check-in concerning their guest certificate .... it just depends on the resort. I've read that all Disney (onsite) resorts question how guest certificates are obtained.

=========

Why do you say "under $200"? The exchange fee is now $164 and the Guest Confirmation $59 as I understand it from a recent transaction. That's $223--till it goes up again. MD

adahiscout wrote:

Why do you say "under $200"? The exchange fee is now $164 and the Guest Confirmation $59 as I understand it from a recent transaction. That's $223--till it goes up again. MD

It's been a while since I've performed an exchange, so I wasn't aware that RCI's fees had gone up that much. When I was exchanging the fee was $139 and the guest fee was $39. Gosh, that's an increase of $25 for exchanges and $20 for guest fees in just a few years. I think I read somewhere that their membership fees are also going up.

Sheeesh, glad we sold our 9 timeshares when we did. RCI has definitely outpriced our budget. Timesharing used to be an economical way to vacation if you bought resale and traded, but NO MORE.

jayjay wrote:

adahiscout wrote:

Why do you say "under $200"? The exchange fee is now $164 and the Guest Confirmation $59 as I understand it from a recent transaction. That's $223--till it goes up again. MD

It's been a while since I've performed an exchange, so I wasn't aware that RCI's fees had gone up that much. When I was exchanging the fee was $139 and the guest fee was $39. Gosh, that's an increase of $25 for exchanges and $20 for guest fees in just a few years. I think I read somewhere that their membership fees are also going up.

Sheeesh, glad we sold our 9 timeshares when we did. RCI has definitely outpriced our budget. Timesharing used to be an economical way to vacation if you bought resale and traded, but NO MORE.

It also means that if someone still insists on trying to rent out an RCI exchange, they have to add $223 to the rental price before they even begin to reimburse themselves for maintenance fees and equity on the week they exchanged. That being the case, they are normally non-competitive with someone who is renting their own comparable week with no additional fees to cover (unless the owner is totally unrealistic in what he is asking). So, as I said before, why on earth should we even consider trying to mess with renting RCI exchanges? There seems to be no up-side to that attempt these days. Use what you own, rent out what you own, or exchange for something you want yourself. MD

Actually, in retrospect, I believe when we first started timesharing RCI charged only $129 for an exchange.

I agree that it would be more trouble than it would be worth to rent exchanges, especially since RCI members can be suspended for doing so and renters turned away at check-in, however some people seem to get away with it for whatever reason.

However, you can now buy yearly guest certificates from RCI for a fee (not sure what the fee is) and issue all the guest certificates you wish in that year. To me, this flagrantly invites rentals of exchanges. I don't understand many of RCI's business practices.

jayjay wrote:

Actually, in retrospect, I believe when we first started timesharing RCI charged only $129 for an exchange.

I agree that it would be more trouble than it would be worth to rent exchanges, especially since RCI members can be suspended for doing so and renters turned away at check-in, however some people seem to get away with it for whatever reason.

However, you can now buy yearly guest certificates from RCI for a fee (not sure what the fee is) and issue all the guest certificates you wish in that year. To me, this flagrantly invites rentals of exchanges. I don't understand many of RCI's business practices.

I recently inquired about this and was told that you can buy a three year or five year "Partial Guest Certificate" for a specific person to be your guest. I don't remember the exact fee but it was less than three regular guest certificates cost. That NAMED person could make an unlimited number of reservations. This is not going to help anyone who wants to pretend that assorted strangers are his personal guests. It would be useful if you have an adult child whom you frequently let to use your exchanged weeks. Ahaa! I think I can copy some of that info to you:

A Member may give a Multi-Year Guest Certificate to a friend or family member by purchasing at the then current fee a Multi-Year Guest Certificate for a stated period of time offered by RCI in its discretion from time to time. A Multi-Year Guest Certificate allows the Member to give the named guest recipient the benefits of a Guest Certificate on multiple occasions during the stated period without paying an individual Guest Certificate fee for each transaction; provided that the Member has timely renewed his/her RCI Weeks Subscribing Membership, the subscribing membership has not been terminated, and Member has not directed RCI to terminate the Multi-Year Guest Certificate. The Member may terminate a Multi-Year Guest Certificate at any time. The Multi-Year Guest Certificate fee is nonrefundable. No substitution of named guests on the Multi-Year guest Certificate will be permitted. It is the responsibility of the Member to forward any and all correspondence and information regarding Guest Certificates and Confirmations to the guest. Guest Certificates may only be used by the individual(s) named on the certificate and their guests and may not be used by persons under the age of twenty-one (21).

Thanks adahiscout for the explanation, but I still don't see how this would alleviate rentals of exchanges by using a mult-year guest certificate. Am I missing something?

jayjay wrote:

Thanks adahiscout for the explanation, but I still don't see how this would alleviate rentals of exchanges by using a mult-year guest certificate. Am I missing something?

Seems so. The point is that you would have no reason to buy the multi-year confirmation unless you are going to rent or give your exchanges to the same person many times. That is quite likely if you are truly GIVING the week to a family member or close friend, but not if you are trying to rent to the highest bidder. There is no savings in buying a "partial guest certificate" if the same person will not be using it 3 or more times in five years. (If that is the length you chose.) You cannot use this for a variety of different "guests". Furthermore, RCI may well inquire about your relationship to the party you name on the Partial Guest Certificate.

RCI is trying to do something nice here for folks who regularly give their exchanges to a family member and resent paying for a guest certificate every time. Let's not make them sorry they did it. MD

What about renting a week that I paid for as an "extra vacation" thru II? I cannot go, so couldn't I rent it for amount I paid for it and buy a guest certificate? Technically, I'm not renting out my home week or exchange.

jillw71 wrote:

What about renting a week that I paid for as an "extra vacation" thru II? I cannot go, so couldn't I rent it for amount I paid for it and buy a guest certificate? Technically, I'm not renting out my home week or exchange.