Maintenance Fees

loug11 wrote:

Hi I just found the site and am very interested. When I bought my first unit in Orlando area my maint fees were near $200. Now I am paying $1000 for that and a second unit I bought in 1998.

I think that owners should have the right, through internet to know exactly what is going on at board meetings. This way we can through internet, voice our specific opinions on specific issues. Additionally, we need more protections under the law. Management companies are in business to make money. They make money by getting it from fees on owners. Not from promotional stays. We are subsidizing the management companies promoting themselves and trying to sell units. we collectively need a real management company which has people take inventory of all items in the unit and defects. If when they are checking out there are damages or degredation of the unit, the party staying in the unit will be charged on their credit card for the damages.

Find out who in Congress is looking out for us, or lets get someone to represent our cause. Lets change the timeshare ownership contract.

...

It seems to me the board OKs the maintainance fees, based on the spending requirements. However, I have seem the turnoil and graft that can follow when a board canned a management company because they thought the fees were too high. It never got back to the quality it originally had. There were lawsuits over grossly misappropriated funds. Are we having fun yet?

BTW, my daughter, the perpetual student, is at Mills, near the fwy collapse in SF-Oakland. She says it's a mess and will be for some time. She says you can get to SF, but you can't get out. :plop:

We all hate rising MFs but--what was the price of gas in 1998? Insurance has risen so much in Florida that many people who live there are trying to get out. We just rolled a Fairfield/Wyndham contract from Ft. Lauderdale to Wisconsin Dells and, even with the required additional points purchase, our MF has fallen sharply. (This is also just 2 hours from home, so we save on gas and time!) No hurricanes or earthquakes. Just an occasional tornado. And we get massive INDOOR water parks!

MD

debi_zyx wrote:

You are all so right about the maintenance fees! Where I live, we have a similar problem (along with the fact that we only have 3 resorts to choose from!). There is a local group of people here that got fed up, and they have got as many resort owners as possible together to bring a class action lawsuit against the company that owns and manages the resorts. The suit, which is currently in the high court, claims that the reason our maintenance fees are so high is that the resort management are charging the owners for maintenance of the complete site, including maintenance of units unsold (and there are a lot of those). So, if only 1/2 the weeks have been sold, I am actually paying double maintenance on my weeks, to cover the unsold units (which, by the way, are rented out as regular hotel rooms !!!!). Anyway, at the moment the class action is in the courts, and the claims are currently "just claims", but you guys may think about doing something similar.

Great! Would LOVE to hear the outcome, as it may give some of us other TS owners hope.

Jeff.............

Seeing you work for one of these companies now, don't you think you should advise the prospective buyers and disgrunted owners the following advice.........

Find out exactly who owns the controlling interest in your timeshare resort. You may find the developer owns enough units to maintain the controlling interest (developer may have it under several names). which means they also control the Owners Association, maintenance fees, along with everything else.

I just went to the Marroitt St. Kitts Resort to purchase a timeshare. Upon reading the little thick white book with tiny print (purposefully printed in that manner), I found the developer has controlling interest in the resort which means he controls the Owners Association, maintenance fees, along with everything else. I believe it also stated the developer does not have to pay the 'Maintenance Fees' for his units and buildings of which there were several. (Guess who will be paying his share?) The developer fixed the maintenance fees for one year, (start with low fees to draw in the buyers) but seeing he has the controlling interest, he can raise those fees to whatever he wishes. Do you really believe he will give up controlling interest and miss out on all the profits from the maintenance fees?

I also asked for detailed information regarding the maintenance costs vs. maintenance fees. I only received assurances that the Owners Association oversees this and I therefore have nothing to be concerned about. Also, I may even be elected to be on the board of the Owners Association. (Was I supposed to be impressed?)

Some (not all) of these owner assocaiations are there just to make the owners think they have a say. I know of one person who used to be on the board of their owners association. They stated it was a farce, but he got a free weeks trip and a tax write off just for attending the yearly meeting.

The resort sales reps. did not want to discuss how re-sales work. They stated there are no re-sales at their resort because it is such a hot property no one will sell. They only stated they are selling quickly and we might miss out.

Because I have had only limited time to read the little thick white book, I haven't yet finished it So, I'm not sure how the re-sales work for the timeshare, but if it is like the Ascutney resort in Vermont, the owner/developer has rights to first refusal on the units. This is usually done to ensure controlling interest.

I'm sure by the time I get through the book I will find more interesting facts.

Jeff, I hope honesty is your best policy. But, by the manner in which you have written in your messages, I find it may be very difficult if not impossible for you. Good Luck in your new job.

Very smart move below .... congrats !

adahiscout wrote:

We all hate rising MFs but--what was the price of gas in 1998? Insurance has risen so much in Florida that many people who live there are trying to get out. We just rolled a Fairfield/Wyndham contract from Ft. Lauderdale to Wisconsin Dells and, even with the required additional points purchase, our MF has fallen sharply. (This is also just 2 hours from home, so we save on gas and time!) No hurricanes or earthquakes. Just an occasional tornado. And we get massive INDOOR water parks!MD

carries25 wrote:

loug11 wrote:

Hi I just found the site and am very interested. When I bought my first unit in Orlando area my maint fees were near $200. Now I am paying $1000 for that and a second unit I bought in 1998.

I think that owners should have the right, through internet to know exactly what is going on at board meetings. This way we can through internet, voice our specific opinions on specific issues. Additionally, we need more protections under the law. Management companies are in business to make money. They make money by getting it from fees on owners. Not from promotional stays. We are subsidizing the management companies promoting themselves and trying to sell units. we collectively need a real management company which has people take inventory of all items in the unit and defects. If when they are checking out there are damages or degredation of the unit, the party staying in the unit will be charged on their credit card for the damages.

Find out who in Congress is looking out for us, or lets get someone to represent our cause. Lets change the timeshare ownership contract.

...

Is the legal issue a state's issue or a federal one? In CA, there is the Brown Act, which prohibits private meetings about public affairs. Perhaps it can apply to the community of timeshares and their self-elected boards. Well, lawyers? How about it?

It seems to me the board OKs the maintainance fees, based on the spending requirements. However, I have seem the turnoil and graft that can follow when a board canned a management company because they thought the fees were too high. It never got back to the quality it originally had. There were lawsuits over grossly misappropriated funds. Are we having fun yet?

Hi its LouG11. I sent a general e-mail to the Federal Trade Commission regarding this issue. I did this after looking at a Washington Post article comparing 5 or 6 Orlando area resorts vs on line vacation outfits like travelocity if I am not mistaken.

My comment was, yeah when you compare to year one, maint is maybe $300 per year plus taxes, etc. And that timeshare beats booking vacation deals.

If you have a problem with high maint fees, contact the FTC or another govt agency so we can raise awareness.

I own at the lekki teki village in FL. It is a nice resort. I own a 3 bedroom (8,000 pts per yr.) my maint and taxes are $1,000. When I bought they told me that the fees had not gone up in the last 3 years, yet every year after I bougt it has gone up. However, I have 4 children age ranges 4-14. I need at least a 2 bedrooms when I travel. I don't know where these deals are that everyone is talking about. All I know is that it cost me $15K for the timeshare and I spend $1,000 in maintenance. Are you saying that if I sell my timeshare, I could rent someone else's timeshare for the same $1,000? or less? I was thinking of getting membership here. Are people actually renting their timeshares here. Are there enough people looking at these? I was going to go for one that I paid $600 one time fee and they would rent it. They say a 2 bedroom is going for $1,200 - 1,500 (during the summer in FL at my location), yet when I look at the rent listings here, it is not that high. They tell me that they are selling 3 bedrooms for $13,500-16,500 that they say is their current selling price. So if they take my $600 and I let them rent it i will make at least $1,200 (so they say). What is their incentive to advertise my rental if they are only getting a one time $600 fee. Why are their renting and sellling prices higher then what i see here? Obviously a teaser amount to get me interested. Life time fee .. whose life time are we talking? Someone please educate me. I vacation during off season and don't use all my points. I want to rent the remainder of my points which would edquate to 1 week (2 bedroom) if I banked it. Thank you ... Ronni Walsh

ronniw wrote:

What is their incentive to advertise my rental if they are only getting a one time $600 fee.

There is no incentive, they already have your money.

Quote:

Why are their renting and sellling prices higher then what i see here? Obviously a teaser amount to get me interested.

Exactly, you hit the nail on the head.

Quote:

Life time fee .. whose life time are we talking? Someone please educate me. I vacation during off season and don't use all my points. I want to rent the remainder of my points which would edquate to 1 week (2 bedroom) if I banked it.

You should be able to rent your points on Redweek if the price them realistically.

I live in New York I am used to high fees & taxes. As I see it everyone is calculating maint fees but what your not calculating are property taxes which are high all over the world, especially in vacation hot spots. Yes, my fees have gone up but I have expected this, It keeps up my property, the, payroll, promo ads & property taxes, this is your investment and it must be kept up to keep it value. Besides the management must make a profit or your units can go bankrupt. Employee payroll gives you the level of service you want. People do alot of normal wear and tear damage and some do alot of damage so if fees were small you would see alot more wear & tear on YOUR property & the worth of your condo down. But do check up on the property managment there alot that don't know how to manage. You can email most of them your questions & the good ones should reply. I belong to consolidated Resorts and they seem to hold down costs as much as possiable. But costs do go up and timeshare vacations are luxuries.

ct20 wrote:

I live in New York I am used to high fees & taxes. As I see it everyone is calculating maint fees but what your not calculating are property taxes which are high all over the world, especially in vacation hot spots. Yes, my fees have gone up but I have expected this, It keeps up my property, the, payroll, promo ads & property taxes, this is your investment and it must be kept up to keep it value. Besides the management must make a profit or your units can go bankrupt. Employee payroll gives you the level of service you want. People do alot of normal wear and tear damage and some do alot of damage so if fees were small you would see alot more wear & tear on YOUR property & the worth of your condo down. But do check up on the property managment there alot that don't know how to manage. You can email most of them your questions & the good ones should reply. I belong to consolidated Resorts and they seem to hold down costs as much as possiable. But costs do go up and timeshare vacations are luxuries.

Too true. I recently received a 2006 Audit report from one of our resorts and was amazed at all it contained. Out of $17,994,457 total expenses for the year, only $2,261,709 were the expected "Repairs and Maintenance" under Operating Expenses and $1,417,885 under "Replacement". Other item included Front Desk, housekeeping, recreation, telephone, grounds maintenance, Utilities, property tax, income tax, insurance, security, resort management, etc. They all need to be paid and the owners pay them. (Who else?) All these things are needed or your resort becomes just an apartment in a run down neighborhood.

MD

I admit that maintenance fees are needed to keep a resort in good condition. My problem is the amount of some maintenance fees for one unit X 51 owners (one week is set aside for yearly maintenance). Say your maintenance fees are $700 (a year) X 51 (owners) = $35,700 a year just for one unit. I realize that includes maintenance of the entire resort, but that seems exhorbitant to me.

Also, it seems that high maintenance fees are not enough to cover special assessments for many resorts. In other words some resorts have absolutely no reserves in place for repairs even with the high yearly maintenance fees charged owners.

High maintenance fees (on top of what was paid initially for a timeshare) and special assessments are two of the main reasons we now rent and no longer own.

Also, it 's never revealed that maintenance fees will probably rise each and every year. Many people are in the dark as to that issue when buying for the first time.

adahiscout wrote:

ct20 wrote:

I live in New York I am used to high fees & taxes. As I see it everyone is calculating maint fees but what your not calculating are property taxes which are high all over the world, especially in vacation hot spots. Yes, my fees have gone up but I have expected this, It keeps up my property, the, payroll, promo ads & property taxes, this is your investment and it must be kept up to keep it value. Besides the management must make a profit or your units can go bankrupt. Employee payroll gives you the level of service you want. People do alot of normal wear and tear damage and some do alot of damage so if fees were small you would see alot more wear & tear on YOUR property & the worth of your condo down. But do check up on the property managment there alot that don't know how to manage. You can email most of them your questions & the good ones should reply. I belong to consolidated Resorts and they seem to hold down costs as much as possiable. But costs do go up and timeshare vacations are luxuries.

Too true. I recently received a 2006 Audit report from one of our resorts and was amazed at all it contained. Out of $17,994,457 total expenses for the year, only $2,261,709 were the expected "Repairs and Maintenance" under Operating Expenses and $1,417,885 under "Replacement". Other item included Front Desk, housekeeping, recreation, telephone, grounds maintenance, Utilities, property tax, income tax, insurance, security, resort management, etc. They all need to be paid and the owners pay them. (Who else?) All these things are needed or your resort becomes just an apartment in a run down neighborhood.

MD

jayjay wrote:

I admit that maintenance fees are needed to keep a resort in good condition. My problem is the amount of some maintenance fees for one unit X 51 owners (one week is set aside for yearly maintenance). Say your maintenance fees are $700 (a year) X 51 (owners) = $35,700 a year just for one unit. I realize that includes maintenance of the entire resort, but that seems exhorbitant to me.

Also, it seems that high maintenance fees are not enough to cover special assessments for many resorts. In other words some resorts have absolutely no reserves in place for repairs even with the high yearly maintenance fees charged owners.

High maintenance fees (on top of what was paid initially for a timeshare) and special assessments are two of the main reasons we now rent and no longer own.

Also, it 's never revealed that maintenance fees will probably rise each and every year. Many people are in the dark as to that issue when buying for the first time.

I think we have to assume at least something like a "cost of living" increase in MFs. Wages for resort workers rise, too. Insurance has gone up big time in areas hit by hurricanes.

Within a single resort, there are sometimes more than one POA (Property Owners Association) who oversee their section and choose the management company. We visited one in which one of the POAs had kicked out their original Fairfield management and hired someone else. Stay in their section of the resort and you got one roll of toilet paper. After that... I hate to think of what they neglected in upkeep to keep fees low.

MD

I don't see the need to buy a fixed week unless you want a certain unit (ex. beachfront) in a certain area (ex. coastal, winter ski areas) in a certain season (ex. summer, winter ski, holidays) with all the thousands of rentals out there these days.

It's much less hassle to rent than to own now with all the rising costs related to ownership.

My question is where/when does the rise in maintenance fees stop? I can see a small rise every 2-3 years but NOT every year with some rises into the hundreds of dollars as has been the case with Marriott ownership.

jayjay wrote:

ronniw wrote:

What is their incentive to advertise my rental if they are only getting a one time $600 fee.

There is no incentive, they already have your money.

Quote:

Why are their renting and sellling prices higher then what i see here? Obviously a teaser amount to get me interested.

Exactly, you hit the nail on the head.

Quote:

Life time fee .. whose life time are we talking? Someone please educate me. I vacation during off season and don't use all my points. I want to rent the remainder of my points which would edquate to 1 week (2 bedroom) if I banked it.

You should be able to rent your points on Redweek if the price them realistically.

Yes, but please do us all a favor by NOT low balling. It drives down all the prices we can get if some folks dump their unit for less than their costs. Make sure you add up all fees, taxes, etc. and get at least a modest return for time and effort (not to mention your equity!)

Talking to an agent last year, I heard about her picking up a 3Bedroom Daytona Race Week at Fairfield Ocean Walk for a price that could hardly have covered maintenance fees. If the owner wasn't going to use it or, at least, rent it for a fair amount, he should not have reserved something which is in such high demand and is so hard to get--even for Ocean Walk owners. That was just a waste for all concerned (except the agent!) MD

JayJay your right, it is much less of a hassle to rent rather than own but doesn't that go for home ownership in General? That is why so many people rather rent homes than buy them, much less hassle. It all depends on what you need and that is why vacation ownership are there for people who could afford them. In 35 years that I have owned property not 1 year have my taxes stayed the same, always going up. When I bought my T.S. I bought on the same basis I buy homes. What are my yearly obligations after the intitial investment? That determines what I can afford. T.S. is still more afforable than owning a condo somewhere, T.S. are lot less of hassle, I'd rather pay the maints fees.

bettysue1 wrote:

Jeff.............

Seeing you work for one of these companies now, don't you think you should advise the prospective buyers and disgrunted owners the following advice.........

Jeff, I hope honesty is your best policy. But, by the manner in which you have written in your messages, I find it may be very difficult if not impossible for you. Good Luck in your new job.

Hi Bettysue,

I,m sorry I havent gotten back earlier. As you can Imagine, I have been very busy these days. Not that everyone else hasn't been, but this job is 3 1/2 hours from home.

Also, everyone gives timeshare salesman a hard time (rightfully so because some have made it very difficult for the rest of us) but it is a very difficult occupation to get started in. Many times the money may not start flowing for 3 months. In the meantime, most of us have to work two full time jobs. We also have to take a lot of abuse, many times from those we work with.

Anyway, I am entirely honest. It is easy for me because the company I work for provides a product that is free from many of the problems I see voiced here.

The developer doesnt retain controlling interest so it is the owners who truly make the decisions. Because of this there is full disclosure of all expenses. Part of our maintenance fees do pay a program fee but that part actually decreased this year.

I guess I,m not sure what you mean by "by the manner in which I write".

Consider this...... With all the bad business practices in timeshare out there, SOMEBODY must be doing it right.

Jeff

ct20 I could not agree more. We have a vacation house just 1 hour away, no pool, no housekeeping, no groundskeepers. When we want to get away, we want to GO AWAY. Like fly to a tropical place or see or do something new. We hardly have time to spend at our vacation home, but we must make time, to clean and mow and everything else that comes with ownership. Although, it's beautiful, until we give up the home we live in and the job we must go to (retire) it is basically a hassle.

Timesharing is the ownership, without the responsibility. And the maintenance fees for such well kept resorts, with all the amenities in the places (you couldn't afford the taxes to live in) are nothing compared to full ownership or nice hotel accomodations costs.

Everyone is saying that the maintenance fee's are too high. I actually purchased a package recently and the fee's are very reasonable. If your interested in learning more, just let me know.