Timeshare Points vs. Weeks

Well I am not sure about the Cendant lawsuit but RCI is being sued www.rciclassaction.com

ken1193 wrote:

Quoting Jennie (in pertinent part) from a posting back in October, 2006, in order to ask my question........

Re: >>.....must wait until the 10 month opening reservation date, and by then the week you want may be unavailable. (This is the basis of a class action lawsuit now pending against Cendant and Fairfield). <<

Let me state clearly and up front that I don't know anything whatsoever about this alleged class action suit. Let me further clarify that in initiating this posting I'm NOT looking to start a reservation procedure discussion or opinion poll.

That intro stated, it's now six months after Jennie's quoted posting and it would be nice to learn a bit more about the class action suit from someone / anyone who knows actual further details. My own questions, for example, specifically include: .... who initiated this alleged lawsuit in the first place? .... what exactly is the "relief" sought by the plaintiffs? .... status / resolution (if any yet and if known) of suit? .... recommend written source to read up on the suit?

Very curious but admittedly uninformed, I'd like to know (or learn of a written source to research further) more facts (not mere speculation or personal opinion) from a knowledgeable source regarding this reported lawsuit.

Got knowledge???

Thanks. Ken ======================================= Edited once, deleting extraneous material from quote... =======================================

Hi everyone. I own Fairfield Points. One advantage is that you can reserve a week at a resort, and if you have to cancel, you don't lose your points. You receive a version called cancelled points which must be used or deposited into your exchange company before the end of the use year, provided you cancel greater than 60 days before the check in date of your reservation. If you cancel less than 60 days before your reservation, there are more restrictions on your cancelled points, but you do not lose them and they are good until the end of your use year. You can also wait until the day that your use year expires to make a deposit to your exchange company. I own at Bonnet Creek and Star Island, and while every exchange I wanted did not materialize, I am relatively happy. My main problem is that RCI makes a lot of errors relative to my account which I have to take time to correct, and sometimes their personnel does not know or at least pretends not to know that what I want to do can be done. Stan.

points have always baffled me, i own fixed weeks at one resort no fuss, no muss, no bother. but with points 2 years ago it req'd 4,000 points per week, same time frame and two years later points went up 500. i have to buy more points for a week now. i like fixed weeks

james2602 wrote:

points have always baffled me, i own fixed weeks at one resort no fuss, no muss, no bother. but with points 2 years ago it req'd 4,000 points per week, same time frame and two years later points went up 500. i have to buy more points for a week now. i like fixed weeks

I just returned from Orange Lake Country Club, FL. I own 1 week for approx 20 years and have always deposited weeks and exchanged weeks. This new gimick about invest $$$$$$ to buy points sounds like a scam. I'm sticking with RCI and hope that they will continue to help timeshare owners with their vacations.

deborahb4 wrote:

charlest66 wrote:

Sunterra Sun Options have more value and are much more flexible. A week at a Sunterra Resort in prime time any time full week is only 5,500 - 6,000 points. You get your exchange more readily with II (not through RCI - we always had bad luck with RCI and switched to II - they are more quality Resorts. No exchange fee through Sunterra and your free II Membership gives you the same choice to swap a week or a few days at a minimal amount of points. You always have too many points to use. It is the greatest way to go economically more sound for your money to stay in First Class Resorts$ You pay for what you get!

I am new at this stuff - what is "II" and how do I find out more about this? Thanks. Deb :)

robertk1 wrote:

Points don't lose value, however the number of points required to get into a condo costs more in newer properties. So the 50,000 points you have for today's home resort might not get you into a standard resort in 10 years.

I do wonder how they will handle adding points to your existing membership when the time comes..... I'd hate to think there would need to be two memberships with two monthly member fees to add points!

Depends on who you have your points with. RCI points will change because they are not deeded, RCI doesn't own properties they are a paper based company.. Fairfield is a deeded ownership and the point value chart will stay the same, the cost to purchase the point will change. So for instance if you can go to Williamsburg for 1 week 2bedroom prime season and it costs 154000 point is 2007 it will cost the same amount of points in 2017. The only exception to this rule I'm aware of is they can increase the value for 1 week but they must decrease the value for a corresponding week, thus the total amount of points for the total property must remain constant. True, newer developed properties will set their points charts based on then current market conditions.

I just attended the Sunterra pitch at my resort, Royal Palm in St. Maarten. They offered that my Weeks 9-12 are worth 7000 points each, but I must buy 3000 points at $6000 for each week---for the lowest Club membership. (They claimed new customers would pay $31,000 for my ownership---which seems it would be worth the top membership at that cost!) Then a jump to $1000 in each maintenance fee, and I would not be guaranteed a return to my resort on my weeks, because I was giving up the leasehold. Who's to say I would find other vacations where/when I wanted? And then lots of confusing fees & rules---guess its's not for me, but I worry Sunterra won't have my interests at heart in my home resort now because I am not a Club participant....It's mind boggling, but making money for them!

I also just returned from Sunterra St. Maarten, after having converted weeks to points. Thankfully, you didn't fall for their sales pitch, as it was way off base. You should be able to convert all of your weeks at once and buy 3000 additional points for the priviledge of doing so for under $6000 total. Your weekly MF should stay the same if you don't give up your deeds (just deposit them for points) and you will have Club dues of about $500 per year including II. They will probably pay most of your first years' dues when you negotiate the initial purchase. I've collected 3 more deeds myself since converting and my regreat is that I didn't have written into my first contract that I could have a year to convert more weeks to points without having to buy more points. I plan to convert it anyway. Good luck to you!

sheilaa39 wrote:

I just attended the Sunterra pitch at my resort, Royal Palm in St. Maarten. They offered that my Weeks 9-12 are worth 7000 points each, but I must buy 3000 points at $6000 for each week---for the lowest Club membership. (They claimed new customers would pay $31,000 for my ownership---which seems it would be worth the top membership at that cost!) Then a jump to $1000 in each maintenance fee, and I would not be guaranteed a return to my resort on my weeks, because I was giving up the leasehold. Who's to say I would find other vacations where/when I wanted? And then lots of confusing fees & rules---guess its's not for me, but I worry Sunterra won't have my interests at heart in my home resort now because I am not a Club participant....It's mind boggling, but making money for them!

I also just returned from Sunterra St. Maarten, after having converted weeks to points. Thankfully, you didn't fall for their sales pitch, as it was way off base. You should be able to convert all of your weeks at once and buy 3000 additional points for the priviledge of doing so for under $6000 total. Your weekly MF should stay the same if you don't give up your deeds (just deposit them for points) and you will have Club dues of about $500 per year including II. They will probably pay most of your first years' dues when you negotiate the initial purchase. I've collected 3 more deeds myself since converting and my regreat is that I didn't have written into my first contract that I could have a year to convert more weeks to points without having to buy more points. I plan to convert it anyway. Good luck to you!

When you use your points, does that mean you can't rent out your unit?

Also, is 2 bedroom listing -one unit or two - 1 bedroom units?

Linda

the whole system seems to have been developed in the most byzantine fashion imaginable. We have been owners for many years,and own at 3 different locations.Never have we ever gotten a straight answer about what points will be available for any given time. the system seems to be run in the most byzantine manner. They really should do like your brokeragehouse and send a periodic statement of your total account. charleskatz@comcast.net

lindas523 wrote:

When you use your points, does that mean you can't rent out your unit?

Also, is 2 bedroom listing -one unit or two - 1 bedroom units?

Linda

ken1193 wrote:

Quoting Jennie (in pertinent part) from a posting back in October, 2006, in order to ask my question........

Re: >>.....must wait until the 10 month opening reservation date, and by then the week you want may be unavailable. (This is the basis of a class action lawsuit now pending against Cendant and Fairfield). <<

Let me state clearly and up front that I don't know anything whatsoever about this alleged class action suit. Let me further clarify that in initiating this posting I'm NOT looking to start a reservation procedure discussion or opinion poll.

That intro stated, it's now six months after Jennie's quoted posting and it would be nice to learn a bit more about the class action suit from someone / anyone who knows actual further details. My own questions, for example, specifically include: .... who initiated this alleged lawsuit in the first place? .... what exactly is the "relief" sought by the plaintiffs? .... status / resolution (if any yet and if known) of suit? .... recommend written source to read up on the suit?

Very curious but admittedly uninformed, I'd like to know (or learn of a written source to research further) more facts (not mere speculation or personal opinion) from a knowledgeable source regarding this reported lawsuit.

Got knowledge???

Thanks. Ken ======================================= Edited once, deleting extraneous material from quote... =======================================

Obviously, everybody can't go to the same resort in the same week. No brainer. For example, even if you OWN a timeshare at Fairfield Daytona Ocean Walk and want 500 Race Week, you must call early in the morning exactly 13 months ahead to nail a unit. You can always cancel if there is a later schedule conflict.

shirley530 wrote:

deborahb4 wrote:

charlest66 wrote:

Sunterra Sun Options have more value and are much more flexible. A week at a Sunterra Resort in prime time any time full week is only 5,500 - 6,000 points. You get your exchange more readily with II (not through RCI - we always had bad luck with RCI and switched to II - they are more quality Resorts. No exchange fee through Sunterra and your free II Membership gives you the same choice to swap a week or a few days at a minimal amount of points. You always have too many points to use. It is the greatest way to go economically more sound for your money to stay in First Class Resorts$ You pay for what you get!

I am new at this stuff - what is "II" and how do I find out more about this? Thanks. Deb :)

We have owned a week in Maui with consolidated Resorts. I believe 'II" is Interval International it has a Resort Directory book they send when you join there is a fee to join . You can exchange your week for somewhere else that is listed in their book, it is a nice size book lots of places to go but they also charge a fee to do the exchange, it depends if it is in the US or out of the US there are different fees. They get you one way or the other i am not impressed with this II. If I had it to do over again I would get the point system. Shirley

Whether you can get into RCI or II (Interval International) or some other exchange group depends on your RESORT's affiliation. Even within Fairfield, some resorts are II and some RCI. Whichever it says in your original contract is what you get. Some resorts are affiliated with more than one exchange company. But if your resort is affiliated with one only, you can't just drop that and join another. You won't have any time available to deposit for an exhange!

Even if you have a point system with your own resort/resort chain, you will probably want to be an exchange company member. If we can't use all our Fairfield points in our use year, we deposit them (or equivalent week) in RCI, which extends their life by two years and gives us access to resorts not connected to anything we own. Same for II, San Francisco Exchange, etc.

We are members of all the above, but have only exchanged via RCI because our II connection is through Bluegreen resorts chain and we always seem to use up all the points we have with them each year.

We do often deposit a Silver Crown white season floating week (Westgate; was Grandvista) with RCI and have had generally good luck, but we wish that were points too. Last week Westgate offered to "convert" our old Grandvista contract to Westgate and make us Red instead of White. That sounded interesting till we heard that there would still be a $139 exchange fee if we wanted to visit a Westgate other than our own! The points resort chains I'm familiar with have no such internal exchange fee. That's why we love them.

MD

mike1536 wrote:

lindas523 wrote:

When you use your points, does that mean you can't rent out your unit?

Also, is 2 bedroom listing -one unit or two - 1 bedroom units?

Linda

As I understood it you can use your points to book a unit through Club Sunterra, then, rent it. Booking the unit through II and then renting is a no-no.

Dave (Reply) We have been Sunterra members for 7 years and have used points for the entire time. When we first bought it was for a deeded 4 bedroom at Greensprings week 50 but we also joined ClubSun for a small fee ($100 or so) and were able to use points immediately. Since then we have increased our points and now have deeded rights to their 13 primary resorts. We like to travel to different resorts and parts of the country at various times of year. Points are excellent for this. Plus, we can exchange points for any resort not Sunterra through II. As for renting, Sunterra promotes this in their presentations. We are currently renting out three weeks that I previously reserved. Sunterra also has a cancellation option without loss of points for any week reserved that doesn't rent or that you can't use personally. But, I do think, as everyone has previously said, costs are high and it will take many years to get any true value back. In the meantime, we enjoy our different vacations. PS: I am not a Sunterra employee and this is not a pitch for them. If you want to buy points, check out the various websites first, don't go directly to Sunterra. Dave M

lindas523 wrote:

When you use your points, does that mean you can't rent out your unit?

Also, is 2 bedroom listing -one unit or two - 1 bedroom units?

Linda

You can use your points to reserve a unit and then rent it out, but you can't eat your cake and have it too. (Not talking about RCI points. Can't rent them out.)

Generally, a 2 Bedroom Deluxe is like a normal 2 bedroom apartment with one living room, one kitchen, etc. (may or may not have 2 bathrooms.) It generally sleeps 6 if you utilize the sleeper sofa in the living room.

Most 2 Bedroom Lock-Offs are like two 1 Bedroom apartments (sleep 4 each) with a connecting door. Each part has an outside entry, so they may also be reserved separately. One section is usually larger than the other and may have added features such as a balcony. (The 1 Bedroom Deluxe) If you have no more than 6 in the combined lock-off, you can make up the smaller living room as a permanent bedroom instead of folding up the sleeper sofa every morning. This gives you the equivalent of a 3 bedroom unit. Ask what size/style beds are in each bedroom.

In some cases, the "small half" of a lock-off is a Studio which may only sleep 2 and have a mini kitchen. In a very few cases, the small side is more like a large hotel room with sitting area but no cooking facilities. (Mexico's Mayan Palace arrangement) Open the connecting door and you have a 2 bedroom/2 bath unit. Again, it is good to ask.

As you can see from the above variations, it is sometimes best to talk to the reservations people who know their resorts. You can't get all these details from on-line reservation lists. On the other hand, if only 2 people are traveling, almost anything will work.

MD

sharonc196 wrote:

james2602 wrote:

points have always baffled me, i own fixed weeks at one resort no fuss, no muss, no bother. but with points 2 years ago it req'd 4,000 points per week, same time frame and two years later points went up 500. i have to buy more points for a week now. i like fixed weeks

I just returned from Orange Lake Country Club, FL. I own 1 week for approx 20 years and have always deposited weeks and exchanged weeks. This new gimick about invest $$$$$$ to buy points sounds like a scam. I'm sticking with RCI and hope that they will continue to help timeshare owners with their vacations.

Hey, folks! References to "Points" are meaningless unless we all know whose point system is being discussed. No wonder folks get confused. We are comparing apples and oranges and avacados!

MD

Types of ownership summary:

1. Own Fixed unit and week. Can use same unit (or same size) at same resort every year. Some must be used during contracted week; others "float" and can be reserved in your "season" or any lower use "season" but not in a higher "season". If your resort is part of a group, you may be able to make an "internal exchange" within that group for a relatively low fee or none. Resorts usually have a connection with one or more exchange companies. If you are a member, you can exchange your week for a week somewhere else via RCI Weeks, II, etc. External exchanges should be requested as far ahead as possible if you want fairly specific dates or locations. The more popular the desired time and location, the farther ahead you must request. ( Not all dreams come true.) If you cannot use your week during your use year, deposit it with your exchange company to extend its life for two years and have something already on hand when you need to make a trade.

2. Own time in a certain size unit and resort (or "Undivided Interest is a building) which is represented by the number of POINTS required to rent weeks in that resort group. You can break up your weeks into smaller units and use them at different times of year. The same accommodations cost fewer points in off season than busy season, so you can stay longer. You can stay longer in a smaller unit or choose a larger unit for a shorter time. If this is part of a resort chain, you can usually exchange into sister resorts for no extra fee or a relativey low fee. You may still reserve a full week and give it to an exchange company such as RCI Weeks to secure locations outside your group.

Points are like dollars. Allocate them as you please during your Use Year. You may even be able to use them for cruises, care rentals, etc. Be aware that points from different resorts are like coinage from different countries. For example, a 2 Bedroom in the Bluegreen chain is worth 9,000 points during the same week that it is 154,000 points at Fairfield/Wyndham Resorts. This does NOT mean that one really "costs" more in dollars and cents or that one resort is "better" than the other. (That's why we need to identify whose points we are talking about in any discussion involving numbers.) The cost is about the same whether you buy a hamburger for $3.00 or 30 pesos.

3. RCI Points. This program seems especially popular with resorts which are not part of a large group that can exchange internally. RCI assigns point value to what you own in exchange for your week or weeks so that you can exchange more flexably as in #2 above. There is an exchange fee. You can, of course, still use your weeks at your own resort. Not all RCI related resorts are "Points Resorts"; some still accept only 7 day stays. (Anybody with personal experience using RCI Points is invited to correct or clarify this! I sat through the spiel but didn't buy.)

Fairfield/Wyndham has a program which works pretty much like RCI Points. The exchange fees are lower than normal full week RCI exchanges though the options are fewer. What they call RCI Nightly Stays uses pretty much the same point system as FF/W.

There are dozens of resort groups and hundreds of seperate resorts, all trying to come up with the most workable plan they can to encourage ownership. The timeshare industry has moved gradually from an emphasis on fixed weeks to floating weeks to point systems but there are variations, pluses, and pitfalls in each. Learn all you can about yours to get the most out of it.

Don't yell at the operators. They can't change the rules or give you what is not available. And remember, Timesharing is an investment in a life style choice, not a "for profit" investment.

MD

My sister in law is in a fixed week system with LWR. We have a small amount of points through Fairfield (105,000) Basically this is a one bedroom and will trade with RCI as a red week one bed room. However, we have received a lot more out of our money that my in laws.

For example, a few years ago I stayed in a two bedroom for 5 days in Vegas at the Grand Desert a couple of years ago while on business. Since this was there Monday-Friday, I only used about half of my points that 7 days would have cost. I ended up rolling over the remaining point into RCI for two blue week studios. It cost me $25.00 x 2 to bank the points since I only had 1 free transaction for my amount of points I owned. That May, I (to my amazement) I looked at using the blue week studio at a resort in may that was in a white week. When I went to actually book my week, I ended up with a two bedroom, cost $159.00 That November, I booked the other blue week in Sedona and received a one bedroom deluxe for another $159.00 Bottom line, for a total of $350.00 I had 5 prime days (2 bedroom) in Vegas, 7 white days in Pogosa Springs (2 bedroom), and 7 white days (1 bedroom deluxe) in Sedona. 1 week in a Comfort Inn standard room would have cost that much or more.

That was our first experience manipulating points. I have done similar booking since.

After watching how we were able to get maximum use out of our points through Fairfield, my in laws bought a points into Sunterra and we are watching and comparing what kind of usage they are going to receive. I will follow up when I know more. My only regret is be bought from the resort for about $12,000 and I found out later I could have bought the same points resale for about $2500-4000.

what catches my eye is the price you paid vs. what you will get if you sell. using the resale price as your expected return . my points cost vs. selling is about the same. where as with my fixed weeks if i were to sell the price i would likely receive is greater than what i paid.

james2602 wrote:

what catches my eye is the price you paid vs. what you will get if you sell. using the resale price as your expected return . my points cost vs. selling is about the same. where as with my fixed weeks if i were to sell the price i would likely receive is greater than what i paid.

Actually, getting into Fairfield/Wyndham would not have been that much of a savings Resale because the Resale points, as I understand it, do not automatically get into Fairshare Plus which is what facilitates the free exchanges among FF/W resorts. To get that, you would probably have to buy some new points and 105K is usually the minimum buy. This may be a new policy. I'm not sure. But I remember seeing something about that recently.

MD