Are they worth it?

we own 3 different timeshares all over the U.S. l give my 2 adult daughters vacations, and we use all our available time. the thing you must develop in infinite patience when dealing with any of the exchange companies. the call centers a scattered all around the globe and you never know who or where you are talking to. plus now they have gotten rid of the Hotel Partner program,except for some low end chains. The exchange deal on cruises was never as good as can get by hardshopping the internet. another thing is long range planning, it is a must to get what you want.

I am in the process of buying Fairfield Plus Points (now Club Wyndham) 105,000. The deed states undivided interest in 14 units (601-614). In the deed, under Grantor at the bottom of the deed it states Group F. Can anyone please tell me what I am exactly buying. Wyndham will not talk to me and the reale individual states Group F refers to the timeshare location. I saw another deed that stated 14 units (400-413) with Group D. Price difference of $1500. Please help.

I don't know what group F is, but my guess is that it represents buildings in a multiple group of buildings. You should be able to get 105 Kpts for less than $100.00 plus closing costs or even free closing. Point maintenance fees are more than a fixed week maintenance fees because they have the Club Wyndham Management fees. If your purchase price is reasonable then you will be getting value for your money. If you plan on selling in the reasonably near future, include an extra set of closing costs as you determine your cost. The reason is that many sellers are paying closing cost to move their timeshare. The real payoff is when you retire and can vacation at lower cost than a hotel room, and have the comforts of a condo. Stan

A Wyndham contract is based on a specific resort and specific space, even though you can use the points anywhere in the Wyndham resorts system. Because costs of building and amenities included at the resort you buy, however, there can be differences in annual maintenance fees among Wyndham resorts and, in some cases, among older and newer buildings in the same resort. In which resort is the contract you are considering based? A call to it's management might clarify what the Group letter means. Inquire about the maintenance fees associated with that group and how it compares with others there.

We own with Wyndham at Glacier Canyon in Wisconsin Dells and at Panama City Beach. Our MF is much higher at Glacier because it has indoor and outdoor water parks which require upkeep. However, it is close enough to us for family day use or short visits, so it is worthwhile. We have never actually visited the other resort, but its MF is low and we use the associated points elsewhere in the system. It balances out.

WHAT! I just noticed that you speak of 105,000 points for 14 units. No way! Maybe 105,000,000 points?? That would be Platinum ownership if Wyndham recognized resale points toward VIP levels. ASK Wyndham! You would probably need to buy some developer points directly from Wyndham to bring your points into the VIP system (if it is possible at all). We are Platinum with 108,000,000 points and it does indeed have its advantages.

Based on Williamsburg, 105,000 points would get you a 1 bedroom unit in Prime time or at 2 bedroom deluxe in Value time each year.

For 105K, you could have an Undivided Interest in the building which contains all the units you mention as being in your contract, but you would not have 14 units for 105 thousand points. Was that your understanding? MD

Yep, I think points systems are so worth it. I own with Wyndham and Sheraton and use my points all the time. When I get frustrated that I can't make a trade. I use my points within Wyndham. The key to any points system is to get in one that has resorts where you want to go. Wyndham has the most and are dirt cheap resale purchases.

Thank you all for responding. The resort is Wyndham Old Town Alexandria. It is not 14 individual units, but a total of units. The deed reads (105000 /119,514,500 undivided fee simple absolute interest in fourteen (14) Units numbered 603 ...etc., as tenants in common with the other undivided interest Owners of said Units in Group F, which undivided interest has been assigned 105.000 Fairshare Plus Points symbolic of said property). I saw another unit being sold and the deed read unit 401-414 and that shows Group D. Called WOTA (customer service/contract dept.) and they had no idea what I was tallking about. The maintenance is $579. I assume that would include Club Wyndham fees! The cost of the timeshare is over $2,000. Am I crazy? I would like to have 3 or 4 days each year at this resort for Veteran's Day. Since I am not buying from Wyndham, would I have a chance (or pts.) to reserve this time? I have read the Wyndham Primer for timeshares and understand a little about things. All information is appreciated. Thank you all.

Wyndham Old Town Alexandria is a desirable location. It has better resale value than some other properties. However, if all you want is points to use to go to other places you can do better. If Old Town is where you want to go, i would check the points needed to get sufficient time at Old Town. I don't have the point vs week chart available, but 105,000 points does not sound like enough for a week at Old Town during prime season. The advantage of owning at this resort is the 13 month reservation period. If you own points at another resort, then the reservation period is 10 months, and you may not get in the resort when you want to go. Stan.

You're all making this sound a lot more complicated than it is, at least for the WVR points ownership. Simply, there are weeks owners and points owners at Wyndham resorts. Most everyone these days owns as a points owner. You know you are a points "owner" and not a "member" because the deed specifies how many points you have (such as the "105000 /119,514,500 undivided fee simple absolute interest in ...").

If your points were part of a membership you would know this in one of two ways.

First, your deed does not mention the points like 105,000, or use the word undivided. Thus, if the deed mentiones this you are a points "owner" and if not you are then a weeks owner possibly with a points membership.

Second, Points memberships require separate paperwork to be processed in addition to your deed (although DRI has Collections contracts which are never ending points memberships which you own. No deed is pocessed when the Collections contract is sold. This should not be confused with DRI's "Club" membership).

Back to WVR points. There are only three significant factors when deciding which WVR points ownership to buy.

1) The price to be paid for the amount of points you are buying. The points you buy have the same power when used to reserve unit regardless of where you own. The only difference between points is the quantity you have. Please take note however that newer resorts cost more points to stay than the older resorts. Over time, while your points will always enable you to stay at the current resorts just fine, ultimately they may not be effective in securing reservations at newer resorts. A 4BR Pres unit at Governor's Green is 203,000-300,000 pts (actualy this is a great deal) whereas the newer Glacier Canyon is 231,000-450,000 and La Cascada 375,000-650,000 and the recently opened National Harbor is 500,000-700,000.

2) The maintenance you will pay for those points. As has been mentioned, each resort can have different costs and while WVR does its best to keep the maint similar as a cost per point, there are certainly resorts with higher cost per point. In some states such as Florida, be careful. Someone might tell you how much the maintenance is but omit the fact that in that state the taxes are billed separately. Wyndham Ocean Walk in Daytona Beach is very expensive to own at when compared to other resorts while South Lake Tahoe is among the lowest.

3) There is one very important reason to own at a specific resort. If you want to have the home resort priority (the ability to reserve a unit more than 10 months in advance) you must own at the specific resort you intend to use. Thus, it's important to experiment to see how easy or difficult it is to reserve units you desire for dates you desire in the month 1 to 10 time period. If your travel plans are rarely impacted when reserving 10 months in advance, then you will not care about owning at a specific resort. But in some cases you will need the additional reservation priority to secure a high demand week or larger unit or presidential unit. Then you will need to own at the specific resort. - There are also a few rare but subtle reasons to own at a specific resort. For example, a number of resorts in HI and Australia are not available to Wyndham owners even though they are in the WVR list of resorts. I re-read the WVR 2009-2010 Directory which states the info differently than I am presenting it. But by practical experiance there are a good number of these resorts which you will have difficulty getting into if you don't own at them.

Just remember that people who buy direct receive a few perks you will not. Salespeople have been offering concierge servives to buyers. They claim they can improve your ability to secure units, as well as help you maximize your benefits. Officially this is not allowed per the WVR CSR desk. But it is being done on a large scale. Direct buyers also are eligible for VIP membership. I currently have 1.3 million points from two resale contracts. This would normally qualify me as a Platinum owner with free unlimited upgrades and 50% discounts on reservations less than 60 days in advance. But since I didn't buy direct I don't receive these benefits.

Wyndham also sold an elite membership/ownership to large point owners a couple of years ago called Presidential Reserve. A large number of Presidential units were removed from general availability and sold to owners where they have exclusive access to a large number of presidential units at all the resorts where presidential units are available. Large point members (both resale and direct purchase) who didn't pay more to join this select group now have fewer preseidential units at their disposal.

Looking at the Wyndham book, Veterans Day in November would be in High time. A full week in a 1BR would be 126 K, but don't panic. You can stay Sunday through Thursday nights for only 15K per night or a total of 75,000 points. A Friday or Saturday night costs a whopping 25,500. You can stay just under a full week and with the 13 month reservation window as an Old Town owner, you should be in like Flynn! (A nod to St. Pat's day) This is a great location, just a short walk to the station for your ride to Arlington or into the heart of Washington. MD

Does anyone know whether it is a fact that if you discontinue paying maintenance fees that it will go into foreclosure, as with any other property, which will damage the credit? I'm going to more than likely post my Maui property on RedWeek for little and see how that goes. If not, I was just wondering the punishments for not paying maintenance fees.

If you fail to pay your annual fees, eventually your resort will foreclose and sell your unit. Usually (In most states) the foreclosure will be non-judicial. This just means that after the legal period of waiting and giving you proper notice, the resort or mgt company has the right to sell your unit in a foreclosure sale without legal proceedings. It is most likely the foreclosure sale for your ownership will result in an entry on your credit report.

It is possible this is all that will happen, although a foreclosure sale will probably have a significant effect on your credit report. Depending on the laws of each state, the non-judicial foreclosure should result in the end of the matter for you. However, it is possible in some states that regardless of whether a judicial or non-judicial foreclosure ocurrs, the resort / mgt co removing the unit from your ownership will not be the only action they may take against you. They might still legally be able to go to court to sue you for the difference between the foreclosure sale and the amount you owe. For example, if you didn't pay maintenance of $1,000 and at the time of the foreclosure sale there are $400 in late fees, interest, and penalty plus maybe another $1,000 for the company performing collections and processing the foreclosure = maybe $2,400. So, if the foreclosure sale doesn't start with min bid of $2,400 and the final bid is not $2,400 or greater (let's say it was $400), the resort / mgt co could then go to court to sue for $2,400 - $400 = $2,000.

But as far as I can tell, once the unit goes to the foreclosure sale it sounds to me that owners are not sued for any funds not realized at the foreclosure sale.

I also look at the yearly maintenance fees. You may get the timeshare real cheap but just check on ebay and many of the timeshares are charging 850-1100 per week with no bonus's and you could rent a place for that much with planning ahead.

Also on ebay the selling company is making a lot of money on the closing passed on to the buyer. www.timetraveltraders.com is a low cost company and there are even downloadable forms if you want to do all the paperwork yourself. An esstoppel letter should not cost anyone more than 25.00 and I saw them charging 100.00 for it today along with 395. closing costs, 150. resort transfer fee, 100. points transfer fee... and I thought no wonder they can't get any bids! The Company that puts it up for you makes more than you even if it sells for even 1.00.

randyh30 wrote:

How do I go about to buy points and what do they cost? What are the good and the bad side of buying points from different places?

I have points at Sunset Beach Club in Benalmadena Costa,Malaga,Spain. My experience at this resort was positive. I think points are a good way to use your available timeshare.

Newbie to Wyndham System I am in the process of purchasing 126,000 pts (UDI) mfee $54.69 at Wyn Old Town Alexandria. The owner is an attorney and will do the closing for a discount. Is $800 a good price? How do I know if I am buying points at this resort, or pts. and the resort? What should I look for in the owner's contract, estoppel letter, and the closing papers to protect myself. Please help. Thank you in advice

jamesm913 wrote:

Newbie to Wyndham System I am in the process of purchasing 126,000 pts (UDI) mfee $54.69 at Wyn Old Town Alexandria. The owner is an attorney and will do the closing for a discount. Is $800 a good price?

On any given day (including today) in the "Bargain Deals" section on Timeshare Users Group, you can find Wyndham points packages of 154k--182k points being given away FOR FREE. I personally gave away a 182k ownership for FREE there a few months ago (my maintenance fees were right around $40 per month; 25% less in monthly fees for 30% more points than your "deal", by my math). I had only a few interested people, even when offering it FOR FREE.

A 126k package may also frankly not be enough points to get you a full week in many (maybe even most --- I'm not really certain) Wyndham locations.

Also be aware that Wyndham now charges (beginning in May, 2011) $299 to process any and all ownership changes. Is this unavoidable fee of nearly $300 INCLUDED in the $800 that you are apparently considering paying? Don't know? FIND OUT, because SOMEONE is definitely going to have to pay that money to Wyndham in order for Wyndham to process or acknowledge the ownership change at all!

Also, what exactly does this attorney handling closing "at a discount" actually mean in terms of specific cost figures? Know in advance that a professional INDEPENDENT timeshare closing company OF YOUR OWN CHOICE would handle EVERYTHING (estoppel letter, escrow, deed prep and recording, notification to Wyndham, etc.) for $300 (a fee which obviously will NOT include the new $299 Wyndham transfer fee previously mentioned, no matter WHO handles the closing). Finally, I would not be personally inclined let any seller (...attorney or not) handle the paperwork in a timeshare transaction in the first place, just as I would not be personally inclined to let a fox "take care of my chicken coop" for me. As a buyer, I ONLY use INDEPENDENT closing companies of MY OWN CHOICE. Perhaps your mileage (and / or your faith and trust in others) varies from mine...

In the end, it's YOUR decision to make, but I personally don't see much of ANYTHING presented within the limited info you've provided to indicate (or even suggest) that this is in ANY way a particularly "good deal" -- UNLESS this is a facility you specifically want to use and are therefore seeking to be able to book THERE with ARP priority. If that's NOT your plan or intention, then this is NOT a good deal at all. Just my personal opinion --- but you asked!

Hi, Kent 1193 is very knowledgeable, and I believe he is an attorney. I stronly suggest as he does, that you get an indpendent closing company if you decide to buy this property. If Old Town Alexandria is where you want to go regularly and at particular times of year, the ability to schedule your time at Alexandria 13 months in advance is useful. Then $800.00 amortized over say 20 years is not big deal. However, if all you want is points with Wyndham, then you can do a lot better. Stan.

They are only "worth it" if you love to vacation and are a planner. Planning months or even a year in advance keeps us going to so many locations that we would have otherwise not visited. It is also worth it to us because we can take the grandchildren and have plenty of space by having a separate living area and kitchen. By using the 7 nights, we can leisurely enjoy the tourist places and not be rushed to do everything within a couple of days. My husband and I are hikers and golfers, so we trade our timeshare a lot to try out new locations. Timeshares are Not for everyone. They are mostly for those of us who don't mind "prepaying" our vacations by maintenance fees and who plan our trips way in advance.

Re Wyndham Old Town Alexandria, I think we can assume that the original owner paid a heck of a lot more than $800. Buyer should indeed check on what his total costs and maintenance fees will be, but let's be careful about stepping on someone else's legitimate sale. This is a prime property for use or rentals. MD

Thank you all for the great information and ideas that have been posted.

One more twist to my story. The seller stated that he purchased Old Town for a trip and had all intentions of selling the timeshare when he returned home. The problem I have now is that only 123,500 pts are available for 2012 (not 126,000). His price is $650 to purchase the timeshare and would do the closing, transfer fee, etc. for $400. A total of $1050. I like doing business in person, but I realize that is very unlikely. I know it is hard now a days to trust people, but I so want to buy at Old Town. My question is - why would someone who lives in Texas, sells timeshares in Florida (gave me the name of the resort he is affiliated with) buy a timeshare just to use for a one time trip to DC? Did he maybe get a great deal!

Stan, At 60+ I'm not sure about the 20 years.

I'm sorry we bought one 5 yrs ago..the maintenance fees are always increasing..the original cost was around $25,000...somehow the rep made it seem worth the money if we were to take a vacation every year..Not so. There are so many vacation package deals out there, we would have been better off with doing those. We're in our early 60's and will never get our money's worth. My son has already said to dump it before he gets stuck with it after we're gone! Don't do it!