Manhattan Club Lawsuit

I agree completely with Tom. Thousands of us got screwed by Eichner and his cronies, and then we were completely abandoned by the NYAG in his so-called settlement. Our only hope of receiving any kind of compensation is to go on the offensive by bringing our own legal action against TMC. My wife and I will be signing on with Jean-Marc Zimmerman. He is asking for a very reasonable retainer that only represents about half of our annual maintenance fee. TMC has screwed us out of tens of thousands of dollars since we bought in 2005. Investing $1250 for a chance at justice is well worth it. I urge all owners to contact Mr. Zimmerman and ask him to represent you too. He can be reached at jmz@tmcsuit.com or (908) 768-6408.

Bob Biello

stevenw317 - here is the reply to your question from lawyer:

We expect significant burden per plaintiff. Since we are not proceeding as a class action, each plaintiff will have a separate claim, and potentially separate discovery. This burden is bilateral, and means that the Eichners will also face significant costs. For each plaintiff, we need to understand the causes of action, the facts, and the applicable law. In some cases, we will need to study statutes of limitations, etc.

Unused retainer is refundable, but the fee is a hybrid arrangement that encompasses both the cash retainer amount plus the contingent recovery. Therefore, we will not be crediting the % recovery against the cash amount.

Thanks,

JM

Jean-Marc Zimmerman

Zimmerman Law Group

stevenw317 wrote:

I am an attorney and owner of 2 MC flex weeks since 2003 & 2007 (approx,), and am current on my maintenance. Nonetheless I am inclined to join the action, but have 2 Qs:

1. Why a $1250 (arbitrary) retainer? Seems to me your retainer should be a fixed amount (whether it be $25,000, $50,000, $100,000 or whatever, DIVIDED by the # of plaintiffs willing to sign tour retainer agreement. That’s fairer to those who DO sign up; and to you as well. For instance, hypothetically, if ALL 16,000 owners retained your firm, your retainer fee would be (gasp) about $20 million (@ $1250 per). On the other hand, if there are only 50 plaintiffs, I don’t see how you could even get past a motion to dismiss for $50,000.

2. Assuming a good recovery and your 30% contingency fee (which is fair, to be sure), will the retainers you receive be applied against the contingency fee if that is larger than the total retainers paid to your firm? Likewise, if you discontinue prior to utilization of all retainers, I assume the difference will be refunded??

Dennis, I am a little confused by your post. I have a deed and pay property taxes so doesn''t that mean I own something?

Read your deed carefully from the perspective of being an owner of a timeshare instead of real estate. As far as property taxes....it is common business practice for lessees and renters to pay property taxes.

In your ballots you will see the name Robert Tucker. 3 of us from the Facebook group tried to get on the Board this year to bring new voices into the group - all 3 of us were sent rejection letters stating no real reason. But - luckily for us, they must have decided this would be bring controversy, and even surprising to him - Robert Tucker is now on the ballot! It's time for the others to GO - years of the same isn't producing any different results. please vote for Robert - nothing to lose, something to gain. thank you!

As has been said before, "the devil is in the details." Unfortunately, your message passes over many of them. While timeshare interests are sold in different forms at different timeshare projects, each project typically has only one. MC is an undivided ownership, like tenants in common. The fact that they should not be viewed or sold as investments does not prevent them from being real estate interests, it is simply a cautionary note regarding sales tactics and misrepresentations. And the fact that no market exists or is likely to exist is more "blue sky" boilerplate advising potential purchasers to consider the MC a risky expense rather than an investment from which you expect to recoup or profit. You will find similar boilerplate in most non-publicly traded investments. And the Eichners have not been found guilty of anything. Their representatives admitted to certain facts in the settlement talks which they made sure cannot not be used in any criminal proceeding. So you can bring a civil suit as an individual, but you cannot charge them with any criminal actions. And after so many unsuccessful attempts, if you convince the right prosecutor to charge them, or judge to hear the case, you still have the statute of limitations and the immunization they received from the NYAG to deal with. I am not defending Eisner. I think the sooner he is separated from the MC the better. However, I think owners need to be realistic about their expectations, stop raising false hopes, and let this matter settle.

i have no legal background, therefore i am speaking (writing) from an informed opinion in response to NATHANZ2's comments:

1. fraud is a crime, vis a vis schneiderman's undercover agents' attendance and taping of eichner's fraud/lie-ridden sales presentations. crime is punishable by other than schneiderman's "settlement." 2. mail fraud is a federal crime, vis a vis eichner's mailing, via USPS, of TMC brochures to unsuspecting purchasers. the above comment applies to this fraudulent action, a FEDERAL CRIME.

3. my assumption is that owners have real estate deeds proving ownership of property, NOT JUST "USE" (correct/adjust this statement with legal definitions). 4. again an assumption: owners pay maintenance fees AND REAL ESTATE TAX (NOT SALES TAX) ON THE WEEK (S) WE PURCHASED, therefore real estate ownership is assumed. (if this is not accurate, then another major lie was presented at the sales presentation; we (I) were told we would "OWN a valluable piece of NYC REAL ESTATE.

considerating "the statute of limitations", could it be extended due to the ridiculous amount of time it took for schneiderman to finalize his legal proceedings with TMC (ending with the nonsensical "settlement" he accepted)?

eichner still has his criminally filthy, fraudulent fingers in the management of TMC. WHY? HE WAS LEGALLY PROHIBITED FROM DOING SO.

NO ONE IN ALBANY, STARING WITH GOVERNOR CUOMO (IF HE EVEN KNOWS OF THE POOR WORK SCHNEIDERMAN DID WITH THE TMC CASE), AND ENDING WITH THE NYC/STATE COURT SYSTEM, IS MONITORING EICHNER'S ACTIVITIES REGARDING THE COURT RULING. IT SEEMS EICHNER DOES WHAT AND WHEN HE WANTS, IGNORING THE EDICT OF THE COURT.

your quote: "I think owners need to be realistic about their expectations...."what do you think our current expectations should be? concerning eichner, i hope it's not LET BYGONES BE BYGONES.....or is it?

nathanz2 wrote:

As has been said before, "the devil is in the details." Unfortunately, your message passes over many of them. While timeshare interests are sold in different forms at different timeshare projects, each project typically has only one. MC is an undivided ownership, like tenants in common. The fact that they should not be viewed or sold as investments does not prevent them from being real estate interests, it is simply a cautionary note regarding sales tactics and misrepresentations. And the fact that no market exists or is likely to exist is more "blue sky" boilerplate advising potential purchasers to consider the MC a risky expense rather than an investment from which you expect to recoup or profit. You will find similar boilerplate in most non-publicly traded investments. And the Eichners have not been found guilty of anything. Their representatives admitted to certain facts in the settlement talks which they made sure cannot not be used in any criminal proceeding. So you can bring a civil suit as an individual, but you cannot charge them with any criminal actions. And after so many unsuccessful attempts, if you convince the right prosecutor to charge them, or judge to hear the case, you still have the statute of limitations and the immunization they received from the NYAG to deal with. I am not defending Eisner. I think the sooner he is separated from the MC the better. However, I think owners need to be realistic about their expectations, stop raising false hopes, and let this matter settle.

Thanks, Nathan. Your post makes realistic sense. I will not be joining any lawsuits. Your level-headed knowledgeable post has confirmed what I previously "felt" about all the talk on this site about suing Eichner and/or TMC, coupled with attacks against NYAG that have been way off base, IMHO.

I'm dropping out of the Redweek membership too, at least for the next year (June - June), because I just paid to TMC my $2,245 maintenance (plus $216 property taxes for 2019) for my split week covering 2019 and 2020. I'm in the group of "satisfied" owners except for the rising maintenance fees and the dark cloud hanging over TMC for the Eichner debacles. In the past two years, I've gotten rid of my other two timeshares and would like to be completely rid of timeshares by 2020 (when I'm hoping I can sell or give away or give back TMC once I'm faced with another 2-years maintenance debt).

That's my plan. Best of luck to all who've posted to this thread, Keeping up with the conversations has not been very productive or positive or informative, save yours and maybe a few others.

Has anyone received a lien as a response to not paying maintenance fees?

No lien. Have not paid my maintenance and my credit rating has not been damaged.

More important has everyone who responded to Mr Zimmerman's retention agreement had a chance to read it. There is every possible way for them to get their money, cover their expenses, and we as owners receive very little. No where does it explain why he needs 500 owners, $625,000, and possibly more, depending on the delays, excuses, when most of the info has already been discovered by the AG Dept of New York. A number of owners are disgusted, as I am, by jumping into a law suit, which already has criminal results, to prove that we were cheated, how will we get our money, even if we win this law suit? Questions we all should consider before we fund a law firm, 2 attorneys, no capital to put up front, and we will be funding this. Have not been able to find any info as to the history of this firm and their past law suits, with the results?

Chris, I'm not suggesting you (or anyone) let bygones be bygones. By all means hold Eichner is contempt as long as you like. All I'm saying is forget your revenge fantasies. Criminal charges have not been brought except in the "court of public opinion" and there will be no "retribution." You might get reimbursed for time you couldn't use in the settlement already negotiated by the AG, but I don't think anyone should expect to recover their "investment." Most of the loss is a result of the collapse of the timeshare market, not anything Eichner did - and that's why all those"blue sky" warnings were so important. So my expectation is that Eichner will make money until a buyer is found; Zimmerman is a shrewd attorney who is positioning himself to get paid, one way or another; owners will get little if anything; and the longer the MC is subject to Hail-Mary lawsuits, the longer it will take to find a buyer. I hope the Zimmerman suit - if brought - proves me wrong - but I don't have much confidence in that outcome. For me this is a business decision - I'm not throwing good money after bad. Good luck to you in your choice of strategy.

I'd love to get out my timeshare with Manhattan Club too like, jills465. Have you any advice for how I should proceed? Just wait until 2020? Why will we be able to extract ourselves then? Last time I looked there was less than a penny value offered on e-bay. Will I be able to close on that? What fees will I have to pay to make sure the transfer if registered correctly?

What other ideas do you have. I'm not even interested in recouping my payment. Just to stop getting letters from Manhattan club reminding me of what I owe and the rate of interest they will charge me.

The nightly rate Manhattan Club charges, if you divide the $2,461 by 7 is not much different than more and more hotels across the country. I was surprised to realize that a Marriott in Redmond Wa (not really a cultural capital, just a suburb) was getting $300 + for a weeknight.

But I just don't want to spend a week in NYC every year anymore. Beside e-bay the only references that arise in google are firms that charge me money up front to list my property. I don't consider that very helpful.

all redweek.com TMC OWNERS:

this may sound like a JUDAS-INSPIRED commentary. if anyone sees it that way, they're wrong. here goes.......

i like staying at the MC. it's generally well-kept and offers a quick getaway for shows, events and sights in the greatest city in the world. parking is so convenient and inexpensive (by nyc standards). the employees that deal with owners are, for the most part, friendly and accommodating. i live in a nyc suburb, so i never go for more than 1 night at a time (per month), or possibly a saturday and sunday weekend. yes, i get desired reservation dates refused, but i am put on a wait list and either close-to-desired dates (or actual desired dates) become available. yes, again, i MUST PLAN WAY TOO MUCH IN ADVANCE for availability, a definite and a likely avoidable situation if TMC were managed honestly and without the BS SHAM created by eicher.

i empathize with other owners who have more unsolved issues than i have, especially those from a long distance away from nyc who can rarely get a desired week's reservation. that's pathetic.

my MAIN ISSUE (AND STRICTLY FROM MY OWN PERSONAL SITUATION) is the ridiculously exorbitant maintenance fees, vis a vis, about $3000 per week. the penthouse suites fees are proportionately higher. remember, at the fraudulent sales pitch we all attended (which schneiderman's undercover agents attended, observed, and taped) we were told that these fees would escalate ONLY SLIGHTLY over time. NO ONE IN HIS/HER RIGHT MIND CONSIDERS A 400% INCREASE, SLIGHT. (i mention schneiderman's plaudible tactic of using his undercover agents, but that CRIMINAL evidence got us owners NOWHERE, other than a nonsensical "SETTLEMENT"........FOR WHAT THAT'S WORTH. schneiderman may have been distracted by other issues while litigating the TMC/EICHNER case.)

so i join with others who have more relevant issues than i, that need to be resolved. my relatively lesser problem of getting maintenance reduced by at least 35-40%, however, seems to be one that we all have in common. i don't see how JMZ, esq could possibly handle the huge number of individually pertinent cases at one time. that seems ludicrous.

Anneo59: I may have mislead you. The other two timeshares that I have gotten rid of were not at The Manhattan Club. One was a Wyndham (which I gave back through their Ovation give-back program) and the other was my oldest, first ever, and largest and costliest (which I paid a reputable resale company many thousands of dollars to take off my hands). All that I have left to divest myself of is TMC. I'm only giving myself to year 2020 because I'm now "pre-paid" to then because I just paid maintenance for the next two years, so I might as well use it for two more years. (I've already use my time at TMC for this year.)

You are correct on your math -- $300 a night is what a room at TMC costs us owners in maintenance fees, paid well in advance of use. So our rising maintenance fees are staying abreast of market rates. I too have looked on eBay and here on Redweek. Resales are very cheap, and still they don;t sell.

What I'm hoping for in 2020 is to legally transfer my ownership to someone else so that I no longer own any timeshares.

Your calculation of $300 per night would be fine if you didn't considering the initial output of $40,000+ that some of us paid for this timeshare.

Has anyone heard from Irene Smalls - I'm assuming she is still an owner at the M. C. ? I emailed her and got nothing back from her. Seems she'd respond to our web site if she really did recoup a sizable amount from her lawsuit.

Susan - I understand, with most timeshares, the yearly/weekly maintenance fees calculate to the low side, or even cut-rate, when compared to a "pay as you go" hotel nightly rate in any current market. (Although at $300 a night, not so at TMC if you could stay at the Sheraton or Hilton for $300!)

One study I read calculated that, if the timeshare is used (and presumably enjoyed) for 13 years, the owner(s) would have spent the same amount of money as if they just paid market rate every time they took a vacation. And none of the stress of ownership.

This is partly why the yearly rising maintenance fees at TMC are so troubling. We are not only out the initial cost of buying but also have to pay top market-rate to use it. And we can't get out of ownership obligations into perpetuity.

When making comparisons to other hotels in NYC rates, remember that a suite st TMC sleeps 4, 2 batnrooms, and has a mini kitchen, fridge, microwave. So the “$300/nite” nominal rate often used on this group is off by a lot. Find apples to apples rates.

The accommodations at most hotels are much more up to date than the Manhattan Club. I think $300. is comparable considering the state of TMC.

If you stay in a hotel, you need to add at least 20-25% in taxes and fees, so the correct dollar comparison is $300 at the MC vs $240 at a public hotel. I don't know if anyone on this thread has stayed in a NY hotel lately, but $240 doesn't buy much more than a tiny "sleeping room" with a full bed and not much else. The rates you see advertised are "teaser" rates. Check the availability charts and you'll see the actual rates are $40-$100 or more higher, depending on the night. Let's hope for the sale and reorganization of the MC, sooner rather than later, so liquidity can be restored, owners who want out can get out of the obligation, and the rest of us can enjoy the property for as long as we want to maintain our ownership.