Better Business Lodging

Tracey, thank you for your research and Ill be happy to answer your questions. I hope you will answer mine as well. Do you speak from a personal experience you had in trying to rent or sell your timeshare? Which timeshare do you or did you own and have you done anything to rent or sell it on your own or with a company you paid? What were your results like? I did similar research on my end. There is over 35 David Taylor's in Orlando alone not to mention across the country. It seems to be a very common name. In doing further research I also found that the BBB had that info incorrect as he is not the principal. Besides, Im not a big fan of the BBB. I have made decisions in the past based on their good ratings on companies that didn't prove to be good ones. After reading a few articles about their practices I don't really gage my decisions an anything the BBB says especially since they are a for profit private not gov't organization and they charge for membership. To answer your question - The event was The Home and Garden show. I did look into this as well and don't think they had a booth but from what I understand they did have a large presence at the show each day. I agree with you that nobody would want to share a king size bed. That is not how it was presented to us when we bought the timeshare and they actually sold us on the concept of using one side of our 2 bedroom and renting the other or even renting out the living room to a friend on vacation with us since the pull out sleeper had its own private area. I know if I could get a resort for the same price or even similar to what I would pay a hotel it would be smarter. Hotels in the Orlando area, decent hotels anyway have gone up in price so the concept doesn't seem so far fetched.

tracey75 wrote:

Looking at the BBB doesn't tell much other than this LLC was started in May 2015 and the contact info is: Contact Information Principal: Mr. David Taylor (Director)

Doing a search on David Taylor-timeshare comes up with several timeshare scams connected with Mr. Taylor. So I would imagine the 25 years of combined TS experience is made up of at least 22 years of TS scams. I know some businesses like this say they advertise at conventions but I never really thought they did. Could you give me the name and the date and location of the convention you attended so I can try to verify if this business was actually a registered participant there.

I would also like to know what you own and why you think a business would want to rent out your unit for a convention. I know that these companies say that is what they do but I have never heard of a company actually renting timeshares for attendees. They rent hotels. No one wants to have to share a king bed with a colleague. No one wants to cook when they are in town to do business and have fun. No one wants to rent a full week when conventions are typically 3 days or less.

My timeshares were both paid so I had no trouble giving them back. I walked away with no money from the deal but I am now free of future maintenance fees and assessments. That was my goal and I still have one timeshare that I will never part with because I love the location and I use it without having to exchange. It is well managed and the maintenance fees have been kept low because it was never taken over by a large corporation and it never will.

I'm not against timeshare ownership. I'm against the corporate greed that has taken over many of the popular properties to be used a cash cow for the one percent . If the timeshare industry had stayed to the original concept of deeded weeks and open exchanges I would probably have kept the two I got rid of in 2011.

Points are the worst thing that happened in the industry. I challenge anyone to show me the benefits for the owners. It's all in favor of developer. They decide if you can book a stay at their discretion . If you read through the threads in the forums you will see over and over again people being denied reservation for any reason the developer decides to use. The game is rigged.

Good luck with whatever decision you make. I just hope you devote enough time and effort to reach your goal without being scammed.

Remember: Never pay anyone money upfront that claims they can get you out of your timeshare.

As for me, I own about 20 timeshares total. I seem to sell or give away about 3 per year and buy about 5 a year so they have slowly been accumulating. This includes a points membership where I can make multiple short stay reservation. I have rented about 30 (10 or so full weeks and the rest 2-5 night stays) this summer and have another 5 full weeks that I rent out over Christmas and New Year in Florida. I am pretty much a DIY girl.

If the BBB is wrong about the principal then who is the principal? You seemed to have done a lot more research on them than I have. Do you have the names and or real estate brokers licence numbers for any of the employees that you worked with. With all that experience, it shouldn't be hard to research their past experience and companies. I don't gage by BBB either but sometimes they have interesting tidbits. It is just too easy to start a new LLC and then once complaints start piling up to shut down and start a new one. But it is kind of ironic that their name is Better Business Lodging which I would imagine is to create the impression that they are associated with the BBB but haven't sent them in a notification that the information is incorrect. There may be many David Taylor's but when I search "David Taylor timeshare" nothing positive comes up.

Did they give you the names of any companies that they work with?

By the way you still haven't mentioned where and what you own. I own Wyndham points, Bluegreen, Vistana, a couple VV at Parkway, Holiday Inn, Summer Bay, and a bunch of others.

We used to own in Central FL. Let's just say that we sold it for significantly less than what we paid for it but we did get a few bucks for it. Keep in mind that it was at a resort where you will see a lot of units trying to be dumped on E-Bay or even here on RedWeek. But it worked using RedWeek and its reasonable fees.

Now as for this company that you are thinking of enlisting, how much are they charging you and what are they promising to do for you?

20 Timeshares? thats a lot. Would you be so kind as to share what techniques you use to rent them and sell them on your own without spending any money upfront? That would be very helpful. I won in Central Florida. Would rather not put their name out there since I don'w want any negative things coming back to me from them or their affiliates until I'm out of it.

Thank you Don. You seem like a very nice guy. Before I just tale it as a complete loss I will pay someone to help me. I dont think that I can get something for nothing and Ive already spoken with several realtors that wont work with it because they say it is not enough commission in it for them and that they deal more with local markets. I am thinking I of moving forward with them to assist me in rental first since we have a bigger unit than we need we'll use one and try to rent one.

We listed with another company first and got no result. Better Business Lodging helped us rent our timeshare by close to the end of the second cycle. They kept up with me regularly, always returned my calls and emails and finally got the job done. I had hoped that it happened sooner but overall I am very happy with them. At least I got back my fee that i paid and still made some more that I am applying towards my maintenance and taxes. Glad to see that with a little patience and persistence it is possible to recoup some money back from this timeshare thats been nothing but a big headache since we purchased.

Charles - if you don't mind me asking, who was your TS with, where was it, how many points and did you get the price they told you you may get? I'm leery - it sounds too good to be true. I'd like details from someone who's used this company and been successful.

charlesl398 wrote:

We listed with another company first and got no result. Better Business Lodging helped us rent our timeshare by close to the end of the second cycle. They kept up with me regularly, always returned my calls and emails and finally got the job done. I had hoped that it happened sooner but overall I am very happy with them. At least I got back my fee that i paid and still made some more that I am applying towards my maintenance and taxes. Glad to see that with a little patience and persistence it is possible to recoup some money back from this timeshare thats been nothing but a big headache since we purchased.

I have owned, used, sold (and occasionally rented) timeshares for nearly 35 years. During those 3+ decades, including regular participation in numerous timeshare organizations and timeshare-related Internet sites, I have NEVER even HEARD of "Better Business Lodging" before --- except right here in this one particular RedWeek forum thread.

Draw your own conclusions from this observation. I recommend taking unsubstantiated "endorsements" for unknown "businesses" with a grain of salt. It may or not be the case here, but know and understand that it is not uncommon for "shills" to use timeshare discussion forums to post phony, fabricated, positive "endorsements" for their own dubious "business" in order to promote (for free) their own operation. Also please take note of charlesl398's subtle reference above to paying a required "upfront fee" (ALWAYS a red flag). Just sayin'... As those yellow road signs sometimes advise, proceed with caution.

P.S. This entire thread has absolutely nothing to do with the actual forum subject of "Timeshare Exchanges" in the first place. The thread should instead be in the more appropriate "Buying, Renting and Selling Timeshares" forum --- but here it is anyhow.

donp196 wrote:

Re: >> Points are the worst thing that happened in the industry. I challenge anyone to show me the benefits for the owners. It's all in favor of developer. <<

I don't have any points ownerships, never did and don't plan to in the future, so I am certainly not waving any flags for points. However, I must nonetheless note in response to your "challenge" above that some people very clearly LIKE the fact that some points systems (Wyndham and Hyatt both come immediately to mind, I think Marriott as well) allow for partial week stays (when / where space is available of course ). In other words, not everyone wants to be locked into the customary, mandatory full 7 day week that is associated with most timeshare ownwerships. Some people actually wouldn't even consider owning anything EXCEPT points. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Thank you Ken - our call with BBL felt too good to be true and all of our questions had great and practiced responses. We said we wanted to wait and talk it over and think about it. We have not heard back and it's been almost a week. Up until saying we wanted to think about it, they were calling at least daily.

Tracey75, I was contacted by Better Business Lodging just today and their estimate of the worth of our Sedona Summit Diamond Resort deeded week seemed very high. They also require up front $ to "market" our property and take care of connecting us to interested buyers etc. . .after reading this thread I'm hesitant but you said you have bought several timeshares for your DIY business and personal use. My question is . . .where did you go to buy your timeshares and what do you advise I do to sell mine? I know Sedona is desirable and a deeded week is rare there so I feel it has some value but how can I know what that value is. ANY advice from an independent pro like you is appreciated.

tracey75 wrote:

As for me, I own about 20 timeshares total. I seem to sell or give away about 3 per year and buy about 5 a year so they have slowly been accumulating. This includes a points membership where I can make multiple short stay reservation. I have rented about 30 (10 or so full weeks and the rest 2-5 night stays) this summer and have another 5 full weeks that I rent out over Christmas and New Year in Florida. I am pretty much a DIY girl.

If the BBB is wrong about the principal then who is the principal? You seemed to have done a lot more research on them than I have. Do you have the names and or real estate brokers licence numbers for any of the employees that you worked with. With all that experience, it shouldn't be hard to research their past experience and companies. I don't gage by BBB either but sometimes they have interesting tidbits. It is just too easy to start a new LLC and then once complaints start piling up to shut down and start a new one. But it is kind of ironic that their name is Better Business Lodging which I would imagine is to create the impression that they are associated with the BBB but haven't sent them in a notification that the information is incorrect. There may be many David Taylor's but when I search "David Taylor timeshare" nothing positive comes up.

Did they give you the names of any companies that they work with?

By the way you still haven't mentioned where and what you own. I own Wyndham points, Bluegreen, Vistana, a couple VV at Parkway, Holiday Inn, Summer Bay, and a bunch of others.

marya1774 wrote:

where did you go to buy your timeshares and what do you advise I do to sell mine? I know Sedona is desirable and a deeded week is rare there so I feel it has some value but how can I know what that value is. ANY advice from an independent pro like you is appreciated.

I am not Tracey nor am I an independent pro but here is some advice. First of all, if you want to buy a timeshare, you can look right here on RedWeek. Other reputable sites for finding timeshares for sale are Craigslist, E-Bay, My Resort Network, and Timeshare Users Group (aka "TUG"). They are also reputable sites for selling (or giving away) timeshares.

If you want to find the resale value of your timeshare, one recommendation is to check E-Bay's completed sales. That will tell you what they sold for as opposed to what many delusional owners are hoping to get. It is possible that the unit you are trying to sell has some resale value but don't expect tens of thousands. Be realistic. And if you are dead serious about getting rid of what you own, you may have to bite the bullet and just offer it up for free.

But whatever you do, never, ever pay anyone a large upfront fee to sell your unit. That is always a scam.

I am not familiar at all with the Sedona timeshare market but off the top of my head the only Timeshare that I think that would be worth more than $500 on resale would be a Hyatt platinum 2 br week. I would think most would be worth $0-$500.

There are basically 2 types of timeshares that actually have monetary value in terms of selling. One would be a points timeshare with a well known respected hotel based company where the ratio between points and MF are good. The second would be a property that can easily rent out for around 2 times or more the MF's. So if your MF is $1000 but you can easily rent it out for $2000 or more there will be resale value.

THANKS for your response. My experience with Better Business Lodging sounded so good (after calling me out of the blue) but of course all my red flags were up when they told me the value of my every other deeded week in Sedona was worth 35,900 - 37,000. They claimed, although could of course not guarantee their track record is to sell their inventory in one to two "cycles" which are 90 days. They say they are not "brokers" but "marketers" for the properties and sell off timeshares to corporations who want to own corporate housing for conventions. The biggest red flag was the up front marketing fee of $1,485 good till uni sells and 100% refundable if I sell the unit myself. The agent spent a lot of time asking how we wanted the check made out. . ."both names or one. . ."and" or "or" which was silly to be talking about this hypothetical check before we agreed to contract. Website also is slick but has LOTS of fluff and filler. The "too good to be true" part is the $35,000 valuation for a lock-off every other year in Sedona that would have to be transferred to be useful in Fl or Vegas conventions.

Thanks For your response. My biggest Red Flag with the Better Business Lodging was that they valued my every other "lock-off" Sedona deeded week at $35.900 - $37,000. I've checked around enough to know most people are happy to simply give their timeshares away! I feel there is some value in Sedona, a Diamond Resort property but like you say, at the $500+ range! they were asking for a "marketing fee" of $1,485 good till unit sells. We have a low MF and can rent it for 2X that but STILL. . .the #35,000 was so outrageous I couldn't believe them. Also he was asking all kinds of questions about how we would want the check made out, both our names, and/or etc. . .thought that was totally weird!

tracey75 wrote:

There are basically 2 types of timeshares that actually have monetary value in terms of selling. One would be a points timeshare with a well known respected hotel based company where the ratio between points and MF are good. The second would be a property that can easily rent out for around 2 times or more the MF's. So if your MF is $1000 but you can easily rent it out for $2000 or more there will be resale value.

Having been associated with timeshare use and ownership for nearly 35 years now, I must respectfully disagree a bit with some of the above. I have no comment on the points input above, as I have no involvement with ANY points-based systems.

I own a handful of desirable, high demand, fixed weeks at several different (independent, no "chain" affiliation) resorts, all purchased in the resale market. I bought and own these weeks to use them, not to rent them out or to operate a "business". Any and all of these desirable weeks could be very easily re-sold for what I paid for them (and likely little more than that). On those rare occasions when we can't use our weeks, I easily rent them out --- but certainly NOT for "two times or more the maintenance fees". "Two times or more the maintenance fee amount" is both unrealistic and overly optimistic, EXCEPT perhaps in Hawaii (where we do not own). Far more often than not, in my experience and observation at our independent resorts, 150% of the maintenance fee amount would be at the high end of most private rentals conducted with an owner, with many such private rentals being for 125% -- 135% of the annual maintenance fee amount.

Not seeking to argue, merely offering some very different input and observations based upon my own several decades of personal experience.

That being said, the harsh reality of the marketplace is that low demand weeks and / or weeks in low demand locations may have no rental or resale value AT ALL and sadly, sometimes can't even be given away for free.

I agree with Ken. Unless your MF's would be extremely low and it is a sought after resort, then maybe. If it was at a mediocre resort in the off season, even with low MF's, I don't think 2X would be realistic. One of our properties is in key West where everyone wants to be no matter what time of year. MF's are high, but we rent it for around 130% and have never had a problem. I have felt that was a fair price, to all concerned, and I get to take my wife to dinner with what's left :)

Ken, If you bought resale and it is a decent location and time of year and a well run resort that you can't easily find a rental for less than MF;s there is no reason you couldn't sell it for what you paid. If this BBB rentals is valuing a timeshare in the $15,000-$30,000 range it has got to be something extraordinary like DVC or ocean front Hawaii, or similar that can rent for 2X's or more MF.

There are probably a decent number of timeshares that could sell in the $500-and even as high as $2000 range if you are patient and active in seeking the right buyer. If you have one that fits into that category you have to decide if it is worth it to wait for the buyer who fits with exactly what you own and can see that higher value or to reduce it to $0-$500 for a quicker sale. Probably anything that could rent for 90-130 of the MF;s falls in that category. Of course there are weeks that really have no value or negative value and those are the ones that are really hard to deal with. The ones that have MF in the $500-$800 (or more range) but you can regular get them through RCI or II last call/getaways for under $300 for the time of year when you own.

It isn't necessarily about you being able to rent your week, it is also if you were going to rent something similar to what you own, how much do you think you would have to pay. If you would have to pay more or would have trouble finding something when and where you want to go (assuming that is what you own) then the week has value for you

tracey75 wrote:

Ken, If you bought resale and it is a decent location and time of year and a well run resort that you can't easily find a rental for less than MF;s there is no reason you couldn't sell it for what you paid. If this BBB rentals is valuing a timeshare in the $15,000-$30,000 range it has got to be something extraordinary like DVC or ocean front Hawaii, or similar that can rent for 2X's or more MF.

There are probably a decent number of timeshares that could sell in the $500-and even as high as $2000 range if you are patient and active in seeking the right buyer. If you have one that fits into that category you have to decide if it is worth it to wait for the buyer who fits with exactly what you own and can see that higher value or to reduce it to $0-$500 for a quicker sale. Probably anything that could rent for 90-130 of the MF;s falls in that category.

I must respectfully disagree with some of your generalizations. After 35 years of timeshare experience, I believe that I have a solid grasp on both resale market value and rental ranges --- at least at the specific properties at which I have owned intervals for many years now.

Each one of my very carefully chosen fixed weeks, all of them at small, very well run "independents", all of them in peak demand seasons (none are within any "chain") are each easily worth a minimum of $5,000 per week in the resale market and would (and do) sell at that price (or perhaps up to $700 or $800 more than that) very easily, although I have no interest whatsoever in selling. I have been offered that much (unsolicited) by other owners on several different occasions in recent years, but I am not at all interested in selling.

If I was a potential tenant seeking to rent the weeks that I own (these particular fixed weeks are only very rarely found offered or available to rent at all), they consistently command only up to 150% of the annual maintenance fee amount --- and no more. Even for rentals of those prime weeks directly from the resort (if / when available at all), the total weekly rental fee, even with occupancy taxes, is STILL a bit less than twice the maintenance fee amount.

I know there are geographic variations (e.g. Hawaii, some oceanfront Marriots, etc.). I know my own (none being "high end") resorts and area and demand very well, but claim no knowledge outside of my own personal experience and orbit. You are certainly correct however that there are low demand weeks in low demand locations that are very difficult to sell --- or to rent out for even enough to cover maintenance fees (if even rentable at all).