Fairfield Problem

jayjay wrote:

carvana wrote:

As far siging on the dotted line agreeing to pay maintenance fees, I doubt that you ever actually signed on a dotted line agreeing to pay maintenance fees when you purchased your nine timeshares.

We were aware that maintenance fees were due each year for our 9 timeshare purchases ... that declaration is mandatory and anybody who knows anything about timeshares is aware of that declaration.

Quote:

Surprise, surprise, yes debts do just go away. There is something called the statute of limitations.

I've never heard of a statute of limitations on debts owed. The only thing I'm aware of is debts being deleted after bankruptcy (depending on chapter).

Quote:

Again, check on that statute with your attorney prior to responding to my post.

I have no reason to check with an attorney since we've always paid our bills on time and we've never expected society or our fellow timeshare owners to foot the bill should we decide, for whatever reason, to quit paying our bills or fees.

When someone quits paying their maintenance fees it then falls to fellow owners in the form of higher yearly maintenance fees for them.

Quote:

Knowledge is power.

We are in agreement that knowledge is power, but you have a lot to learn concerning timeshares.

Dear Jayjay, It is correct that debts expire if no payments are made over a period of years, typically 7 years. The time varies by state. I am not advocating not paying your bills, but if circumstances are so bleak that you cannot pay your bills and you have negilgible assets, that is probably preferable to declaring bankruptcy since bankruptcy will stay on your credit report for 10 years. If you have significant assets, sooner or later you are going to have to pay, a small credit provider may give up because of the litigation costs, but a large company will not give up since it is a normal cost of business for them. Stan.

stanleyf5 wrote:

jayjay wrote:

carvana wrote:

As far siging on the dotted line agreeing to pay maintenance fees, I doubt that you ever actually signed on a dotted line agreeing to pay maintenance fees when you purchased your nine timeshares.

We were aware that maintenance fees were due each year for our 9 timeshare purchases ... that declaration is mandatory and anybody who knows anything about timeshares is aware of that declaration.

Quote:

Surprise, surprise, yes debts do just go away. There is something called the statute of limitations.

I've never heard of a statute of limitations on debts owed. The only thing I'm aware of is debts being deleted after bankruptcy (depending on chapter).

Quote:

Again, check on that statute with your attorney prior to responding to my post.

I have no reason to check with an attorney since we've always paid our bills on time and we've never expected society or our fellow timeshare owners to foot the bill should we decide, for whatever reason, to quit paying our bills or fees.

When someone quits paying their maintenance fees it then falls to fellow owners in the form of higher yearly maintenance fees for them.

Quote:

Knowledge is power.

We are in agreement that knowledge is power, but you have a lot to learn concerning timeshares.

JayJay, this is my last post on this subject so you get the last word. I have been a timeshare owner for over 20 years and like you have always paid my fees and special assessments. Likewise, I have a perfect credit rating and have always paid my debts on time. I don't advocate not paying maintenance fees but I do recognize that there are times when a senior citizen with a limited income finds him/herself with a worthless timeshare due to poor management by the board of directors and continued payment may make it impossible for them to provide "bread and butter" for their household.

I will put my kinowledge of the timeshare industry up against yours anytime anyplace. I suspect you are an employee or developer within the timeshare industry and I understand the reason behind your advocacy.

You get the last word.

CGA

carvana wrote:

I will put my kinowledge of the timeshare industry up against yours anytime anyplace. I suspect you are an employee or developer within the timeshare industry and I understand the reason behind your advocacy.CGA

Last word .... I am not an employee or developer in the timeshare industry. I'm merely a former owner of 9 timeshare weeks and I my knowledge was earned via research, research and more research on the subject of timesharing for many years.

BTW, what am I supposed to be advocating .... paying my former maintenance fees on time and not buying a timeshare week if I knew I couldn't afford it. We paid for all of our weeks with cash, otherwise the weeks wouldn't have been bought in the first place.

What happens to a person's credit if they stop making payments on a timeshare they financed through the resort? Is that debt also written off when they decide they no longer want to pay? I seriously doubt it.

There are millions of timeshare owners, as is evidenced by the resale market, that have, in retrospect after purchasing, decided that timeshares are not for them and they honestly think they can quit paying any fees or debts to the resort or the resort's's financial services. I see it all the time when reading timeshare forums on the internet. They believe that just because it's a timeshare that it's not like any other debt they owe and they can just quit making payments. It's classic.

I agree there may be mitigating circumstances with positive proof required (aging, bad health, death etc) that some timeshare debts may be written off by a resort, but I imagine they are few and far between. The majority of non paid debts are handed over to a collection agency from what I've gathered in my years of research.

jayjay wrote:

carvana wrote:

I will put my kinowledge of the timeshare industry up against yours anytime anyplace. I suspect you are an employee or developer within the timeshare industry and I understand the reason behind your advocacy.CGA

Last word .... I am not an employee or developer in the timeshare industry. I'm merely a former owner of 9 timeshare weeks and I my knowledge was earned via research, research and more research on the subject of timesharing for many years.

BTW, what am I supposed to be advocating .... paying my former maintenance fees on time and not buying a timeshare week if I knew I couldn't afford it. We paid for all of our weeks with cash, otherwise the weeks wouldn't have been bought in the first place.

What happens to a person's credit if they stop making payments on a timeshare they financed through the resort? Is that debt also written off when they decide they no longer want to pay? I seriously doubt it.

There are millions of timeshare owners, as is evidenced by the resale market, that have, in retrospect after purchasing, decided that timeshares are not for them and they honestly think they can quit paying any fees or debts to the resort or the resort's's financial services. I see it all the time when reading timeshare forums on the internet. They believe that just because it's a timeshare that it's not like any other debt they owe and they can just quit making payments. It's classic.

I agree there may be mitigating circumstances with positive proof required (aging, bad health, death etc) that some timeshare debts may be written off by a resort, but I imagine they are few and far between. The majority of non paid debts are handed over to a collection agency from what I've gathered in my years of research.

JayJay, It appears you are confused with the meaning of a debt being "written off". The debt is still due and owing after it is written off but it is no longer carried as an asset on the balance sheet due to accounting rules.

Sound accounting practices require companies to write off non performing debts. Companies whose stock is publicly traded are required by law to write off non-performing debt so as not to mislead potential investors as to the value of the company. For example, a balance sheet that showed $1,000,000 in receivables that included $500,000 in bad debts would be misleading. Thus, the $500,000 must be written off.

WritIing off a debt has absolutely nothing to do with forgiving a debt. A debt that has been written off can still be referred to a Collection Agency and/or a suit initiated against the debtor to reduce the debt to a judgment. The debt is still owed just not carried as a receivable on the balance sheet.

I hope this helps your understanding. If any additional clarification is needed, please reveal that by making additional comments on this subject.

CGA.

carvana wrote:

jayjay wrote:

carvana wrote:

I will put my kinowledge of the timeshare industry up against yours anytime anyplace. I suspect you are an employee or developer within the timeshare industry and I understand the reason behind your advocacy.CGA

Last word .... I am not an employee or developer in the timeshare industry. I'm merely a former owner of 9 timeshare weeks and I my knowledge was earned via research, research and more research on the subject of timesharing for many years.

BTW, what am I supposed to be advocating .... paying my former maintenance fees on time and not buying a timeshare week if I knew I couldn't afford it. We paid for all of our weeks with cash, otherwise the weeks wouldn't have been bought in the first place.

What happens to a person's credit if they stop making payments on a timeshare they financed through the resort? Is that debt also written off when they decide they no longer want to pay? I seriously doubt it.

There are millions of timeshare owners, as is evidenced by the resale market, that have, in retrospect after purchasing, decided that timeshares are not for them and they honestly think they can quit paying any fees or debts to the resort or the resort's's financial services. I see it all the time when reading timeshare forums on the internet. They believe that just because it's a timeshare that it's not like any other debt they owe and they can just quit making payments. It's classic.

I agree there may be mitigating circumstances with positive proof required (aging, bad health, death etc) that some timeshare debts may be written off by a resort, but I imagine they are few and far between. The majority of non paid debts are handed over to a collection agency from what I've gathered in my years of research.

JayJay, It appears you are confused with the meaning of a debt being "written off". The debt is still due and owing after it is written off but it is no longer carried as an asset on the balance sheet due to accounting rules.

Sound accounting practices require companies to write off non performing debts. Companies whose stock is publicly traded are required by law to write off non-performing debt so as not to mislead potential investors as to the value of the company. For example, a balance sheet that showed $1,000,000 in receivables that included $500,000 in bad debts would be misleading. Thus, the $500,000 must be written off.

WritIing off a debt has absolutely nothing to do with forgiving a debt. A debt that has been written off can still be referred to a Collection Agency and/or a suit initiated against the debtor to reduce the debt to a judgment. The debt is still owed just not carried as a receivable on the balance sheet.

I hope this helps your understanding. If any additional clarification is needed, please reveal that by making additional comments on this subject.

CGA.

Hi. In some states if no payment is made for a certain number of years by any of the debtors, the debt,an unsecured debt, can no longer be collected in court. One such state is Massachusetts, if no payment is made on the debt, an unsecured debt, for seven years it is no longer a legal debt. I haven't checked lately, but that was the law in Massachusetts several years ago.. There are probably other states with similar laws.. Stan.

I purchased with Fairfield several years ago and have enjoyed the vacations, however financial circumstances have changed and my elderly mother is going to come live with me and updating my house has now become a priority. Several handicapped features need to be put in. Does anyone know of a way to give back the contract or of any way to stop the contract. I am currently up to date on paying but still have 10 years left to pay. I am not expecting to make any money or to get any money back. Even paying a penalty fee is OK. Susan

I will agree that my first year with Fairfield, I was confused and ready to sell. I read literature and made phone calls to my rep. I am now a platinum owner with over 1.1 million points. Love FF (Wyndham) and will never leave them.

susanf186 wrote:

I purchased with Fairfield several years ago and have enjoyed the vacations, however financial circumstances have changed and my elderly mother is going to come live with me and updating my house has now become a priority. Several handicapped features need to be put in. Does anyone know of a way to give back the contract or of any way to stop the contract. I am currently up to date on paying but still have 10 years left to pay. I am not expecting to make any money or to get any money back. Even paying a penalty fee is OK. Susan

Susan, tell us what you did with your purchase.

susan, if you still owe money on your timeshare, it's doubtful you can sell it to make enough money to pay off your loan if you still owe 10 years.

Your situation is sad and that's why it's so important to take a hard look before you sign on the dotted line for any long term committment for a major purchase such as a developer bought timeshare. If you merely quit paying on your loan and your yearly maintenance fees, your credit will be adversely affected.

susanf186 wrote:

I purchased with Fairfield several years ago and have enjoyed the vacations, however financial circumstances have changed and my elderly mother is going to come live with me and updating my house has now become a priority. Several handicapped features need to be put in. Does anyone know of a way to give back the contract or of any way to stop the contract. I am currently up to date on paying but still have 10 years left to pay. I am not expecting to make any money or to get any money back. Even paying a penalty fee is OK. Susan

jayjay wrote:

susan, if you still owe money on your timeshare, it's doubtful you can sell it to make enough money to pay off your loan if you still owe 10 years.

Your situation is sad and that's why it's so important to take a hard look before you sign on the dotted line for any long term committment for a major purchase such as a developer bought timeshare. If you merely quit paying on your loan and your yearly maintenance fees, your credit will be adversely affected.

susanf186 wrote:

I purchased with Fairfield several years ago and have enjoyed the vacations, however financial circumstances have changed and my elderly mother is going to come live with me and updating my house has now become a priority. Several handicapped features need to be put in. Does anyone know of a way to give back the contract or of any way to stop the contract. I am currently up to date on paying but still have 10 years left to pay. I am not expecting to make any money or to get any money back. Even paying a penalty fee is OK. Susan

Hi. People on TUG say that a Fairfield Timeshare is worth between $0.02 to $0.03 per point or $20 to $30 per thousand points. If you can raise the money, sell your timeshare for the best price possible. When you have the buyer signed up put the balance due to clear the title in escrow, and take your loss and get on with your life. As Jayjay says it is unlikely that you are going to be able to sell your timeshare with a 10 year debt as a liability. If you can't clear the title you are stuck. It appears you have sufficient assets that bankruptcy is not a reasonable option. One person on the internet says deed the condo back to the developer. That might work, but you need a clear title to do that, and I would suggest consulting an attorney to make sure making a gift back to the developer will be a proper transaction in your state. Stan.

bentleyh wrote:

I was not even able to trade for any property except a studio (no bedroom) in a third rate resort in a poor season. Trading power was horrible for the Fairfield property.

jayjay wrote:

Were you ever successful in transferring your Fairfield points to RCI points or are you still in Fairfield points?

I check out Ebay timeshares for sale on a periodic basis. It looks like Fairfield points sell quite well there. Probably what you need to do is find out what the going rate for Fairfield points are (per point) and try selling your points here, on Ebay or other listing sites.

I seriously doubt Fairfield will take back your timeshare and if you quit making payments or stop paying maintenance fees your credit can be ruined.

============ I am assuming that you own regular Fairfield FairShare Plus points, not RCI POINTS. I think maybe few Fairfields are RCI POINTS resorts but not many. At which resort do you have your contract?

We have owned with Fairfield for several years and have never had any problem getting a week to deposit in RCI WEEKS if we wanted to...clear up to the end of our Use Year! What you can deposit depends on how many FF points you own and are willing to use for that purpose. For a deposit, you need enough points for a full week in some season and in some unit size. Most Fairfields are Gold Crown resorts and have good exchange power if there is anything available in the exchange companies listings to get.

However, if you look on line through the lists of available weeks you will find that the vast majority of deposited weeks are indeed studios that folks have deposited after using some of what they own for vacations. There are exceptions and we have exchanged into 1BR, 2BR, and even 3BR. Some resorts have nothing except 2BR units, so you may find yourself getting a 2BR for a Studio or a 1BR! Fairfield ordinarily makes "invisible" deposits with RCI which must be exchanged by phone, but at your request they will make a specific "visible" deposit for you if you want to browse on line. (I suspect that perhaps RCI can sometimes get an "invisible" FF deposit changed into whatever Fairfield location they need--kind of like a floating week. Do NOT really know.) There is some advantage to making your final exchange by phone, since the RCI vacation counselor can access and identify both visible and invisible weeks which you might not learn about if you make your reservation on line.

However, if you own FairShare Points with Fairfield, you already have a whole book full or resorts to choose from without any exchange fees! Just plan ahead as far as you can. You know how many points you have. Read the Directory points charts and learn what they will get you. Maybe you bought such a small package that you really can't get much. If you like to vacation, you could consider actually buying MORE Fairfield points on the resale market so that you can get the seasons and unit sizes you want! MD

stanleyf5 wrote:

jayjay wrote:

susan, if you still owe money on your timeshare, it's doubtful you can sell it to make enough money to pay off your loan if you still owe 10 years.

Your situation is sad and that's why it's so important to take a hard look before you sign on the dotted line for any long term committment for a major purchase such as a developer bought timeshare. If you merely quit paying on your loan and your yearly maintenance fees, your credit will be adversely affected.

susanf186 wrote:

I purchased with Fairfield several years ago and have enjoyed the vacations, however financial circumstances have changed and my elderly mother is going to come live with me and updating my house has now become a priority. Several handicapped features need to be put in. Does anyone know of a way to give back the contract or of any way to stop the contract. I am currently up to date on paying but still have 10 years left to pay. I am not expecting to make any money or to get any money back. Even paying a penalty fee is OK. Susan

Hi. People on TUG say that a Fairfield Timeshare is worth between $0.02 to $0.03 per point or $20 to $30 per thousand points. If you can raise the money, sell your timeshare for the best price possible. When you have the buyer signed up put the balance due to clear the title in escrow, and take your loss and get on with your life. As Jayjay says it is unlikely that you are going to be able to sell your timeshare with a 10 year debt as a liability. If you can't clear the title you are stuck. It appears you have sufficient assets that bankruptcy is not a reasonable option. One person on the internet says deed the condo back to the developer. That might work, but you need a clear title to do that, and I would suggest consulting an attorney to make sure making a gift back to the developer will be a proper transaction in your state. Stan.

========= Do some elderly owners WILL a timeshare back to the developers to clear the debt from their estate? MD

adahiscout wrote:

Do some elderly owners WILL a timeshare back to the developers to clear the debt from their estate? MD

I sincerely doubt that a resort would take a willed timeshare back. If resorts took deedbacks they would be swamped with unwanted weeks with no maintenance fee income from those weeks (re: the millons of timeshares for sale on the resale market).

jayjay wrote:

adahiscout wrote:

Do some elderly owners WILL a timeshare back to the developers to clear the debt from their estate? MD

I sincerely doubt that a resort would take a willed timeshare back. If resorts took deedbacks they would be swamped with unwanted weeks with no maintenance fee income from those weeks (re: the millons of timeshares for sale on the resale market).

A possible method would be to set up a corporation with yourself as the sole share holder. Transfer the timeshare properties to the corporation for stock. Purchase new stock each month to pay the maintenance fees. If the timeshare becomes worthless, have the corporation become bankrupt. The timeshare developer can only look to the properties for the monies owed by the corporation. Major corporations usually have over a hundred corporation in their corporate umbrella to minimize losses due to unforseen circumstances. After Katrina, Entergy declared bankruptcy, and the parent company loaned it $200 million dollars, the parent company was then first in line to collect its money after the bankruptcy. If it works for the huge companies, it should work for the little guy. You need an attorney to do it correctly. If you are bleeding dollars, the cost to set up the corporation may be worth it. Stan.

jayjay wrote:

adahiscout wrote:

Do some elderly owners WILL a timeshare back to the developers to clear the debt from their estate? MD

I sincerely doubt that a resort would take a willed timeshare back. If resorts took deedbacks they would be swamped with unwanted weeks with no maintenance fee income from those weeks (re: the millons of timeshares for sale on the resale market).

stanleyf5 jayjay

adahiscout wrote:

Do some elderly owners WILL a timeshare back to the developers to clear the debt from their estate? MD

I sincerely doubt that a resort would take a willed timeshare back. If resorts took deedbacks they would be swamped with unwanted weeks with no maintenance fee income from those weeks (re: the millons of timeshares for sale on the resale market).[A possible method would be to set up a corporation with yourself as the sole share holder. Transfer the timeshare properties to the corporation for stock. Purchase new stock each month to pay the maintenance fees. If the timeshare becomes worthless, have the corporation become bankrupt. The timeshare developer can only look to the properties for the monies owed by the corporation. Major corporations usually have over a hundred corporation in their corporate umbrella to minimize losses due to unforseen circumstances. After Katrina, Entergy declared bankruptcy, and the parent company loaned it $200 million dollars, the parent company was then first in line to collect its money after the bankruptcy. If it works for the huge companies, it should work for the little guy. You need an attorney to do it correctly. If you are bleeding dollars, the cost to set up the corporation may be worth it. Stan.[/Q] ======== Fascinating. Complicated. Expensive. And, as you say, it seems to require the timeshare to become "worthless" so that the corporation can become bankrupt. That would be the deal breaker in most cases. The problem is not usually that the timeshare actually became worthless. Just that circumstances may make it unaffordable or unusable to the owner. Kind of like a Dream House built on Love Canal. (Or is that reference too old for most of you to get?) MD

je38 wrote:

We, mistakenly, bought a FF timeshare a few years ago. In the past few years, we have only used it once! Everytime we call, everything we want is 'sold out,' or not available. They refuse to even waitlist an area like RCI does. We tried to transfer over our points to RCI and it was like pulling teeth with a mule! Bascially, we have paid for nothing! We have been trying to sell it, even at a loss, but unsuccessful. How does one go about giving back a timeshare to the developer? Does this effect one's credit? It's such a rip off and we plan on complaining to the AG in NM, but we are not hopeful of ever seeing a dime back on this! It seems as if the lawyers for the RCI lawsuit should get involved with FF, too!

It makes sense for RCI to have a wait list since additional weeks are being deposited all the time. What was not there today may be there tomorrow. But if all the units have been taken at a resort location, more are not going to appear by magic. You can call back from time to time in case there have been cancelations, but FF is not responsible for calling you. (Tuesday morning is the best time to check. Weekend changes have been entered in the computer.)

Nothing really replaces making your reservations early, if you want something specific. FF does put out lists of resorts with good near time availability . They may even give points discounts. There is no reason to miss vacationing altogether. Almost any place is fun for a week! MD

adahiscout wrote:

Kind of like a Dream House built on Love Canal. (Or is that reference too old for most of you to get?) MD

I remember the tragic Love Canal fiasco. A subdivision built on top of a toxic waste dump.

adahiscout stanleyf5

jayjay wrote:

adahiscout wrote:

Do some elderly owners WILL a timeshare back to the developers to clear the debt from their estate? MD

I sincerely doubt that a resort would take a willed timeshare back. If resorts took deedbacks they would be swamped with unwanted weeks with no maintenance fee income from those weeks (re: the millons of timeshares for sale on the resale market).[A possible method would be to set up a corporation with yourself as the sole share holder. Transfer the timeshare properties to the corporation for stock. Purchase new stock each month to pay the maintenance fees. If the timeshare becomes worthless, have the corporation become bankrupt. The timeshare developer can only look to the properties for the monies owed by the corporation. Major corporations usually have over a hundred corporation in their corporate umbrella to minimize losses due to unforseen circumstances. After Katrina, Entergy declared bankruptcy, and the parent company loaned it $200 million dollars, the parent company was then first in line to collect its money after the bankruptcy. If it works for the huge companies, it should work for the little guy. You need an attorney to do it correctly. If you are bleeding dollars, the cost to set up the corporation may be worth it. Stan.[/Q] ======== Fascinating. Complicated. Expensive. And, as you say, it seems to require the timeshare to become "worthless" so that the corporation can become bankrupt. That would be the deal breaker in most cases. The problem is not usually that the timeshare actually became worthless. Just that circumstances may make it unaffordable or unusable to the owner. Kind of like a Dream House built on Love Canal. (Or is that reference too old for most of you to get?) MD

Hi It does not have to be wothless, just of value such that you don't care if you lose it. Entergy was not worthless it was worth billions of dollars. Entergy simply had a cash flow problem, and a liability problem, which is why they declared bankruptcy. Compared to paying maintenace fees for years for something that you made a mistake on will cost more than setting up a corporation. Stan.