raintree vacation club

I am helping Raintree Vacation Club improve communications with members and just wanted to encourage anyone interested to click through www.raintreelistens.com, a new Web site specifically intended to open lines of communication between the Club and Raintree Members. I am not here to spam -- just letting you know that Raintree hears you. The leadership of Raintree understands and appreciates that it has done a poor job of making the case for a Special Assessment and they apologize for not providing more warning and support infomration. For those who request it, they are also offering flexible payment plans of up to 24 months.

Yes, Raintree has done a poor job of communication. I would like to know if there are Texas Statutes that require Raintree to provide members a year-end financial report. My suspicion is Raintree has many members that have defaulted on their maintenance fees in this recession; therefore, they are asking the rest of us to pay the "special assessment." I hope the Texas Attorney General can investigate Raintree Vacation Club and it's management.

MMF

Raintree has determined the best course of action is to withdraw the Special Assessment. Raintree’s intention is to revisit the issue in the near future after compiling information that will demonstrate clearly and unequivocally that Raintree has used the maintenance fee monies properly but they are insufficient to cover operating costs.

There were serious mistakes in the way the Special Assessment was communicated and the Club apologizes for taking Members by surprise. More than anything, we want to address the excellent suggestions the Club has received from many of its Members.

i am looking at buying a membership at one of the resorts- how easy is it to book at a resort that is not your home resort and how many points are necessary for the stays thx

You need to Google "Raintree Vacation Club" and read the comments from other members before you buy into Raintree. You can rent for much less than getting involved with this company and their high "special assessment" fees. Now that they have been reported to the State of Texas they are backing down for awhile.

MMF

Hi Barbara,

check out tug board in bargain deals for a deal.

barbara458 wrote:

i am looking at buying a membership at one of the resorts- how easy is it to book at a resort that is not your home resort and how many points are necessary for the stays thx

Did you check out the TUG board, bargain deals?

Please look at this site http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/raintree-c210535/page/15.html#c360455 also look at Googlegroups.com and search Raintree. I would hate to see anyone but a Raintree timeshare. These sites will explain it all for you very clearly.

Bare with me, I'm new on this site!! (Tug Board), I couldn’t find it on the web page suggested?? I have an offer on EBay for Club Regina, Los Cabos. Reading the comments, I'm glad by bid hasn't been accepted. Is there not a clause in the Timeshare Agreement that protects the buyer from (Raintree Vacation Club) on how much the maintenance fees will increase every few years? On average, cost of living is 2.5% per year, but what I am reading is absolutely crazy. Why isn’t a portion of the maintenance fee paying for insurance, in case Mother Nature decides to get ugly? There should be an annual report that is available on-line (paper costs money) for each owner to review and make comments. If not Raintree Vacation Club, can anyone suggest another timeshare company?? Or stay away all together?? Thanks

gailm163 wrote:

Bare with me, I'm new on this site!! (Tug Board), I couldn’t find it on the web page suggested??

If you want to check out TUG, here is site for the Forum: www.tugbbs.com. Bargain Deals is a sub-forum off the Buying, Selling, Renting thread. The site for the TUG marketplace is www.tug2.com.

gailm163 wrote:

If not Raintree Vacation Club, can anyone suggest another timeshare company?? Or stay away all together?? Thanks

Many people question whether or not timeshares are a good value. There is a thread on TUG discussing the cost of timeshares from a financial standpoint.

For example if you bought a modest TS (with cash) today for $5000 your annual outlay would be $500/yr over 10 years. If you invested the 10K and got a 5% return, then you have to take in into account a loss of interest of approx 3200. So now your 10 year cost is really $820/yr. Add maintenance fees and your annual cost can be $1400/yr or $200/night for a week's vacation. If you want to exchange with RCI or II, then you also have to add $200-$300/year in membership fees and exchange fees. Of course high demand resorts like Disney or Marriotts command a higher purchase price and higher annual MFs. I did not factor in any resale price since the market is so fickle.

All that being said, we did not regret buying our first TS (from a developer). The TS gave us the opportunity to travel places we probably would not have gone if we rented. However in today's economy renting may be cheaper.

You need to decide how you want to use a timeshare. My suggestion is to buy where you want to vacation every year. Let the exchanges be the "icing on the cake". If you hope to get great exchanges, then buy a TS at a high demand resort during a high demand season. Even then you may not get the trade you desire since people who own units such as these may use them or rent them instead of depositing them.

Hi I suggest you look at complaintsboard.com and join in googlegroups.com with all the other owners. There is LOT"S of info posted that the owners have discovered. Glad to hear you have contacted the AG.

If a person wants to buy, then there is no reason to look at the complaint board. There is a bargain on the RVC Mexico on Tug since I took a look, not sure if still there, but probably check it out if you want to get in under $400 for a 2 week stay.

I personally think it really depends on the person, if you like to travel a lot, then maybe TS is way to go, if you don't then it makes no sense.

ilanat2 wrote:

I personally think it really depends on the person, if you like to travel a lot, then maybe TS is way to go, if you don't then it makes no sense.

Timeshares make more sense for the family that likes to vacation at the same resort each year, especially if that family requires a large unit, or likes specific view.

I always considered exchanges the "icing on the cake". Too many people buy with the hope of exchanging into exotic destinations only to be disappointed when they find out the unit doesn't have the necessary trading power.

[November 02 2009 I just got my email saying another special assessment has passed and is due in Feb 2010 let me know what I can do to help we are member too and did nto know about any assessment cost -- we just knew about maintances fees due yearly which keep giong up.Q=stevenb223] 0 Votes I was just as angry as everyone on this board when I received my "special assessment". I wrote twice to the address on the letter and received form letter replies. I would prefer not to pay the assessment as all of you would but I fear that is never going to happen. I filed my complaint with the FTC. I filed with the Houston BBB. Their response says they send a letter and if Raintree is not a member (which it is not) they cannot do anything but compile the list of complaints. While this will not do Raintree any good, I doubt it will hurt them that much either. A class action lawsuit is a viable option but while it is going on, which can take years, and your maintenance fees are not paid, I doubt you would be able to use the resort or exchange. I am not an apologist for Raintree. I don't like this any more than the next person, and if there is a way to get the fees rescinded, go for it.

So what I did was send an email to Doug Bech. It was kind of a proposed compromise. He answered me almost immediately and has followed up several times since I sent it yesterday. Assuming they will not rescind, I wanted to be sure that it will not happen regularly, nor would they be able to raise the regular maintenance fees beyond reason. Here is the note I wrote Doug and his response this morning. I know it is not what you all want, but it is a compromise. As I said, if you can do better, go for it!

Please read the thread of messages from the bottom and see what you think.

From: Bech, Doug [mailto:dybech@raintreeresorts.com] Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:51 AM To: Joel J Smiler DVM Cc: Berger, John; Deuschle, Christy; Flory, Mike; Pollard, Cheryn; Stamm, Garry; Thomas, Myron; Tucker, Brian; Walters, Kristin Subject: FW: RVC Special Assessment

Joel, Thank you again for making a constructive proposal.

RVC will agree and take steps to formalize an agreement with RVC members that there will be no additional Special Assessment for 10 years and, thereafter, no more often than five years, with the sole exception for force majeur, such as a catastrophe or other natural disaster, and then solely for that purpose. No Special Assessment will exceed 50% of the annual Maintenance Fees then in effect.

Annual Maintenance Fees will not be increased more than the amount set forth in the RVC Members' Contracts.

Over the 12 years that Raintree has owned Club Regina and started Raintree Vacation Club, prior to this Special Assessment, there has only been one special Assessment in 2002 for the beach recovery in Puerto Vallarta as a result of a hurricane in 2001. After Hurrican Wilma in 2005, which substantially destroyed Cancun, RVC used insurance and reserve funds to rebuild Club Regina.

We will agree to a six month payment plan for you and we will commit to work with members who may require a longer payment plan. We would appreciate you posting this on the various web-sites or otherwise circulating this e-mail in order to get this agreement to as many members as quickly as possible . We will send another letter out within a few days. One letter with additional information is already in process so the letter agreeing to the foregoing will be the third letter and will go as soon as we can process this. Thank you, Joel and please let me know if you have any questions or comments. Best regards, Doug

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From: Bech, Doug Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 12:52 PM To: Bech, Doug; 'Joel J Smiler DVM'

Joel, Let me add that I very much appreciate your constructive approach. Generally, this approach seems workable but I do want to let the team debate any area of possible concern. The one area that comes to mind is the possiblity of a catastrophe---hurricane or fire where insurance is insufficient or wasn't available, particularly in Mexico. Over the 12 years we have been in this business, we have had a number of hurricanes with some damge---the loss of the beach at Puerto Vallarta was one where we had a small assessment; and then Hurrican Wilma which was covered out of the reserves but did deplete a substantial portion of those reserves. So, if we limited Special Assessments as you propose and for these "Acts of God" this should be fine--again, I would like our team to discuss. In this market, gettting financing for a catastrophe would be very difficult but we all hope that we won't see this type of recession again.

Thank you again, Doug

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From: Bech, Doug Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 12:39 PM To: Joel J Smiler DVM Cc: Berger, John; Tucker, Brian; Stamm, Garry; Thomas, Myron; Flory, Mike; Pollard, Cheryn; Deuschle, Christy; Walters, Kristin Subject: RE: Re[4]: Member ID 1-145362

Thank Joel----I will discuss the merits of your proposal with our Team and determine if these are guidelines or rules that are appropriate, prudent, and desirable. Our goal is to provide an opportunity for our members to have memorable vacation experiences and have quality resort properties as part of their membgership.

Your ideas are much appreciated and we will be back in touch very soon. Thank you, Doug

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From: Joel J Smiler DVM [mailto:jsmiler@together.net] Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 1:35 PM

OK Doug,

If you will allow me to pay the assessment over a six month period, issue a document that the annual maintenance fee will not increase more than 10% per year, and also issue a document that there will be no more “supplemental” maintenance fees any more often than every five years and then no more than half the normal maintenance fee, I will be happy to pay the fee and post on all the complaint boards and timeshare bulletin boards where this is being discussed the contents of this communication.

I am sure you are aware of the organization of a class action suit, threats to cause disruptions at your resort sales offices, and complaints being lodged with various Profeco and US government and private agencies. I actually have never had bad experiences either in the ability to make reservations, trade, or at the resorts. I have real fear that whether I personally pay the fee or not that this is going to somehow end badly for the company, resulting in the end of Raintree. I really don’t care about my original or upgrade investments. These are long ago and forgotten. I have real concern about throwing “good money after bad” and future constant requests for money, since I am sure your ongoing sales and upgrades are suffering from the economy. .

You need to do something to address these complaints that are multiplying online, and soon, before it is really out of control. . I’ll bet you hate the internet.

Thanks for responding so quickly,

Joel

Joel J Smiler, DVM Lakeville, MI or Marana, AZ “Strive to be the person your dog thinks you are”

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From: Bech, Doug [mailto:dybech@raintreeresorts.com]

Joel, Thank you for your e-mail. We do appreciate hearing from our members and we do realize that we made a mistake by not providing more notice and some additional information. Also, we will reserve a decision as to what action we should take with respect to those who do not pay. In the meantime, I will address a couple of points briefly. The RVC properties are subject to the full use by all of its members and the members would be entitled to all sale proceeds if the various trusts in which all the properties are placed were to be terminated. This means that the Members have the beneficial ownership of these properties subject to the rules of usage and Raintree's responsibility for managing and operating these properties and maintaining them. This expense, however, is the expense of the beneficial owners---the RVC members, including Club Regina members.

The annual fees cover the operating and normal maintenance expense, insurance, energy costs and taxes and typically a reserve for capital expenditures. These costs have risen over the years and the properties require scheduled maintenance as well as upgrades from time to time. We spent approximately $6 million of the reserve funds in 2007 and 2008 on the three Club Regina properties in Cancun, Puerto Vallarta and Los Cabos and incurred signicant expenditures to rebuild Club Regina in Cancun after Hurrican Wilma a couple of years ago. In 2002 we had a special assessment for beach recovery in Puerto Vallarta following a hurricane there. The three Club Reginas, which are the three major properties, were built in the early 1990's and still need significant capital replacements, refurbishments and renovvations as well as certain of the other properties. The numbber of complaints had risen significantly but the annual fees were insufficient for both annual operations and these capital expenditures.

It is the mandate of RVC to maintain all the resort properties for all the members and this special assessment is for that purpose. We are willing to discuss with you a longer payment term and otherwise demonstrate that RVC properties will be of the quality that its beneficial owners desire. Best regards, Doug ________________________________

-----Original Message----- From: Joel J Smiler DVM jsmiler@together.net Dear Raintree Vacation Club,

I would suggest that the ”administrator of Raintree Vacation Club” do some serious re-thinking of this action. From everything I have read there are complaints to the FTC, TX AG, BBB, threats to begin a class action lawsuit, threats to protest or hand out information cards at your resort sales offices, and endless litigation. I see this as the beginning of the end of your company. This is really a shame, as unlike some, I have had nothing but positive experiences at the resorts. Even if I wanted to pay the assessment or my maintenance fee, I would fear doing so now until these rumblings have ended. I would feel that if you are headed for bankruptcy, I should cut my losses.

Best of luck,

J Smiler

I have been an owner since my purchase with Westin Club Regina in 3/97. Over the past 12 years I have paid in over $44,000 for 2 shares of whatever this is now. My maintenance went from $660ish to over $1500 and now they want to double this amount with a special or enhanced maintenance fee. The club was originally an entity that filed with the SEC but as of 2005 they went "private equity" with no advance notice or arena of protest from members. Just a silent change with glossy news about how wonderful this is for members. When I bought I was told I would own shares available at the 3 Mexican resorts and additional resorts built. When all was said and done it appeared I would have to buy another contract or upgrade (over $20,000 more) to use all properties. I decided not to throw any more of my money away and kept my original sales scheme. I am a bright person but don't understand what it is I own. If I sell this to someone I'm not sure what I'm selling and I have an ethical question about this. If I assume they could be in trouble do I sell and not mention this to buyers? I think not. They are telling us we are now "beneficial owners" so it is our responsibility to fix up the properties. If you look at past SEC filings the "beneficial owners" technically owned nothing. "0" as was shown on filings. Now that they need money we are suddenly the owners. They say the special assessment is in our contracts but it is no more there than a requirement to pay our neighbors electricity. They can make anything out of the wording of these vague contracts. Also - please be aware - you can rent space online at the club for less than yearly maintenance - right now. It is a struggle getting reservations and it appears the club competes for usage time with members - and the members seem to lose. Run- don't walk from this company.

Cheryl: I would love to try to help. As described here http://www.raintreelistens.com/purchase/ you own a Membership with usage rights to resort properties. If you are a Member of Raintree Vacation Club, you own a Membership that gives you usage rights throughout the resort property system. Some classes of members (known as VOC or B-share members) purchased under prior owners and have not upgraded to Raintree Vacation Club Membership, and have usage rights at the Club Regina properties only.

Because Mexico has laws regulating foreign ownership of oceanfront properties, the properties themselves are held in trusts and the Club's Members are beneficial owners of those trusts. The Club itself does not own any resort properties. It is just responsible to maintaining the standards of the properties.

Please let us know if we can answer any additional questions. From US and Canada: 1.800.424.6532, from Mexico: 01.800.667.2711, international calls: 1.317.205.916.

Disclosure: I help Raintree Vacation Club with problem resolution.

Club Regina was the first scheme attached to the Westin - It was called Westin Club Regina in 3/97. The structure of the company and their association with Starwood who manages the westins in Mexico has been both good and early on productive but in the past few years there have been problems. At the current time Westin & RRI who owns rvc and club regina, etc. have major suits from investors who were not repaid for a Grand Regina complex in Cabo. Their individual investors were offered pennies on the dollar (allegedly) in reimbursement for the thousands and thousands (millions) paid in. Somehow most of the money is kaput.

Amen, we heard the same story in 1998 when we purchased 2 weeks in Cabo. Then Raintree took over and thing deteriorated. Cabo is the jewel of their resorts. Many of the new acquisitions i.e., old properties that they are to redecorate and update are deplorable, e.g., Kona Reef. Lets hope for a Tusami. Last year they stuck us with a special assessment. Now they tell us since they have parted ways with the Westin, that we will have to pay for use of the Westin gym, tennis courts and parking. These were free when we bought.

Greeetings,

It has been several months this thread has heard from the community. Can anyone update us on special assessment fees for Club Regina/RVC owners? Did they finally follow their CEO, Doug Bech's, intentions to end special assessments for 5 or 10 yrs (except for natural disasters)? I'm considering buying into Club Regina via the outstanding resales currently on the market, but will only do this if special assessments are under control for the next few years. Good to see reviews from recent guests are still very positive.

BTW: Most major timeshare companies (Marriott & Diamond) have been applying special assessments/reserve fund collections to maintain or improve property conditions. They often appear simply as increased maintenance fees, but if you review the fine print you should see a significant amount of the totals are often for reserve funds/special assessments.

Appreciate any updates. E. Cordova

We bought at the Cabo location and love the service/staff but were sad and we have some concerns with the split from the Westin. Just more money we will spend off-site.

Right now we are at the Birch Bay WA location and it is a joke. Absolutely no services or amenities. First time in my life at any motel, hotel or resort I have had to pay extra for clean sheets or to have the bathroom mopped. Absolutely no amenities, it really is a joke. Only the 2bdrms have an ocean view, otherwise the view is of a tree, smoking area and parking lot and a not-so-well taken care of golf course. I am embarassed RVC is even associated with this location and they called this an equal trade to our Cabo site. We were hit with the special maintenance fee and it was equal to our annual fee, not half.

Greeetings,

It has been several months this thread has heard from the community. Can anyone update us on special assessment fees for Club Regina/RVC owners? Did they finally follow their CEO, Doug Bech's, intentions to end special assessments for 5 or 10 yrs (except for natural disasters)? I'm considering buying into Club Regina via the outstanding resales currently on the market, but will only do this if special assessments are under control for the next few years. Good to see reviews from recent guests are still very positive.

BTW: Most major timeshare companies (Marriott & Diamond) have been applying special assessments/reserve fund collections to maintain or improve property conditions. They often appear simply as increased maintenance fees, but if you review the fine print you should see a significant amount of the totals are often for reserve funds/special assessments.

Appreciate any updates. E. Cordova