Marriott Going to Point Syst

How ironic for you, Kathyw84, to be asking for a polite and professional conversation on this board when, in your last post, you began spewing political nonsense about health care and Obama. I was going to respond at the time and tell you that this is about TIMESHARE, not POLITICS!, but decided not to further derail the conversation going on as you had done. But now that you're chastising others with your holier-than-thou routine, I have to laugh. And, in fact, you are right - this should be a courteous place to exchange ideas, frustrations, tips about timeshare - so keep your political views to yourself! Thank you :-)

mark2769 wrote:

How ironic for you, Kathyw84, to be asking for a polite and professional conversation on this board when, in your last post, you began spewing political nonsense about health care and Obama. I was going to respond at the time and tell you that this is about TIMESHARE, not POLITICS!, but decided not to further derail the conversation going on as you had done. But now that you're chastising others with your holier-than-thou routine, I have to laugh. And, in fact, you are right - this should be a courteous place to exchange ideas, frustrations, tips about timeshare - so keep your political views to yourself! Thank you :-)

MARK2769: I have no idea what you are talking about, but obviously, you are not reading my "last post" (your words) nor my post before my last post, nor previous posts. The last two posts (the only recent posts I've even made) have been answering questions about St. Kitts and about whether a unit can still be sold if one joins the Destination program, nothing "political" or "holier-than-thou" as far as I'm aware. I would greatly appreciate it if you didn't make remarks about me when they are 100% inaccurate!!!! I didn't know that being helpful and answering questions others had could be taken as "chastising" and "holier than thou." Wow....that is a sad interpretation on your part...very sad. To everyone other than mark2769, let's keep helping each other with our information by answering the questions posed.

kathyw84 - perhaps I read more into the following post that you made on Oct. 28, 2010:

"25% of the people in the U.S. also wanted Universal Health Care, and those 25% are probably bragging about it, but what about the 75% who didn't want it? It's great that ermanc and rick1227 are happy with the new points system, but please don't tell me that Marriott listens to the owners, as they wouldn't have gone to this system, if so. About 75 % of the owners have rejected the new program. Next thing I'll hear you both saying is that Obama is also listening....."

Taking partisan political shots on a board that is timeshare specific is rather inflammatory. Of course this could have led to lots of political fighting about health care and Obama on a board about timeshares, but luckily it did not. And perhaps you did not intend to do this, only trying to find a metaphor for the new points program, so I was just going to leave it alone.

Then in your post on Jan. 1 to a gentleman named Dennis, you called him rude and called for courtesy on the board, which I felt was a bit hypocritical, in that you had previously made statements that could have stirred up quite a hornet's nest.

Of couse, I probably overreacted, and for that I apologize. Also, having just read through nearly all 19 pages of this topic, I was kinda worn down! and, being new to this site, thought that my reply would be posted right under your original post, where it would have context.

I'm sure that now after a few months have passed since your posts, my reply seems quite jarring! And if I could undo it, I would.

mark2769 welcome to this discussion on Marriott's Point System and I appreciate your concern over kathyw84's post from 28 Oct 2010. I honestly forgot I was called out as in it along with rick1227. I've found that my comments can be mis-interpreted by some who don't know me and or my true positions on a matter. I trust many on this discussion have noticed I'm neither happy or upset by the new points system, especially since I haven't joined (yet) and thus have no first hand experience with it. I participate in this and other on-line discussions to seek and share facts that will allow all to make informed decisions with regards to our timeshare properties and how we vacation. With that in mind, I recommend we all continue to share information/facts on this topic openly and avoid trying to determine motivations from a few short sentences provided on the fly.

So on the topic of Marriott, I noticed in my recent newsletter mailings all three of my Marriott properties are seeking volunteers for the ownership boards to be voted on later this year. I encourage all who care about their respective properties to seriously consider volunteering to run for election to the boards. This is a critical way to voice our concerns and suggestions for improving the Marriott experience. So for those who care about the future of Marriott timeshares I encourage you to be our voices on your board.

One question to all, has anyone had experience with MVCI's current rental process where you offer your unit for Marriott to rent and they provide an offer that you can accept or decline? Do they offer a fair rental for units or is the Redweek rental process better? Thoughts? Thanks in advance to those who respond.

v/r

Erman

My ears were ringing so I thought I should get back on this forum to see who was talking about me..... Couple of updates...

Thanks to Marks773 (2-22-11) and Kathyw84 (3-5-11) for the information regarding St Kitts and their experiences with exchanges. Regarding my post from (2-21-11) and the unique experience with interval....ever since then I have received several calls and all of them were back as they were prior to getting the unique one I mentioned in that post. Polite, helpful, no mention that I could never get that exchange... A few days ago I received a confirmation for the exchange to St Kitts, a full six months ahead of the travel date. My daughter is thrilled (honeymoon). So internal exchanges are still possible yet, despite the points program, and this was a bronze to silver internal exchange within Marriott, so they still have done right by me. I am glad I held out and did not take the "hotel" getaway to St Kitts...

I also did a little test with a non Marriott week I have deposited with interval and found that I could trade immediately into Marriott on Hilton Head at any of their resorts around the end of November beginning of December. My wife and I traded our Dec (bronze) week for Barony Beach thanksgiving week bak in 2004 and this is a great early fall time on the island for golf, bike riding, and shopping. We had a great time. My point here is that external exchanges into Marriott are also still possible at this time. I almost confirmed right on the spot the other day.... So while opportunities may change or be diminished by the new program, they havent been eliminated yet, all it takes is someone to deposit their week for someone else to get the exchange....as it always has been...

ErmanC - I have a few things for you too. Thanks for posting all the info on Monarch and the active association board you have. The newsletter is a nice touch and ALL association boards should be so proactive with the major change in the Marriott program. I know that while I feel that our board at Grande Ocean has done a good job representing our interests over the years, they do not communicate at all with the members. Even the General Manager of the resort only puts out an occasional newsletter. Shame they dont take a more active roll. The annual meeting only lasted 35 minutes last year. You have to wonder if they really do much at all. ( i am sure they do throughout the year but they sure dont tell us about it)

Also, I think you asked about rentals. I have never rented my unit through Marriott and have attempted to rent through Red Week, so you have to consider the advantages of each to see what works for you. As I understand it, you can put up your unit with Marriott for rent and if they accept it, you get a rental check right away less a 35% commission for them doing the rental. Your week then goes into the resort's marketing pool of available weeks and it's theirs.... Easy, quick, but a bit less money for you. If you rent yourself, say through redweek, you can set your price and possibly get a greater return. But you dont get a guarantee that you will rent it. That is the risk for a greater reward. You also have to deal with the money thing with the renter. There are safe ways to do that. Now that is not really a problem since you are not dealing with a lower end price point and folks that want something for nothing. I have had two experiences with renting on RedWeek, One was to rent back at Harbour Club and after I paid for the rental the owner discovered she errored and did not have a week available to rent to me. She was sincerely sorry for the mixup, offered to pay for another rental for us even if it cost more. We then rented on redweek from another owner, this time at Monarch for about $400 more than I was first going to spend. She paid it for us! She was even willing to pay for a week at Grande Ocean for us which would have been about $1400 more that what she was going to take in from me. I didnt want to take advantage of her so we rented Monarch and had a great week. I would rent from her in the future without hesitation as well as the owner we did rent from at Monarch. So redweek rentals are just fine, you more often than not get great renters. You just have to pick one of the methods and go for it...

Want to share news from Aruba - we returned about a week ago. We went on the "points" sales appointment to get the 15,000 reward points and found out a shocker! Aruba is still allowed to sell weeks! The salesperson said it is the only Marriott property allowed to do so, but that there is something to do with the legal end and it will be a while before they have to switch over to all points. However, there is a catch according to the salesperson: you have to be on the island to be able to buy a week there. - not sure if that is accurate, but that is what he said. I asked him why all the U.S. Marriott employees say that there are no weeks available anywhere, and he said he wasn't sure, but he thought it is because there ARE NO U.S.A. Marriott properties where you can buy weeks. If we had been interested in buying 1500 Destination points (we need about 800 to add to ours and make us Premier Plus, but since we plan on continuing to trade weeks, we don't want to "buy" any at this time), it would have actually been cheaper to buy a one-bedroom week in Aruba than it would to buy the destination points. Then we would own the week, have it enrolled in the Destinations program and get the points for it - and all for less than buying the points! It really was a good deal, but we didn't want to shell out over $15,000 at this time.

Also, want to share that we have had chances to trade our accomodation certificate into Maui Marriott, into Grand Vista Easter week, and intoHilton Head Island all in April and May, so there is still inventory to be exchanged.

rick1227 - I agree - we also own at Grand Ocean and I was surprised to see that they only held a 35 minute annual meeting last year. It would be nice to have more communication throughout the year.

As far as rentals, we have rented several Marriotts through RedWeek and we have rented our properties (Marriott several locations and Kona Coast Resort on the Big Island) out as well and have not had any problems. We use a contract that an attorney friend looked over - it protects both the rentor and the rentee. RedWeek also has a contract you can use, but I think it costs. We just rented out a unit for some friends who decided to go to Florida for spring break. Was able to get them a nice unit at the Marriott on the ocean in Ft. Lauderdale through RedWeek. As far as what we have rented ourselves, we have always rented Marriott properties and been happy with what we have rented. We offered one of our Marriotts to be rented through Marriott once and after receiving their offer, we decided we would most likely never do that again - it was a ridiculous price. But it may work for some.

Hope some of this helps!

rick1227 and kathyw84,

Thanks for the feedback especially your experiences with Marriott rent-backs. I didn't expect to hear they would offer much, but you confirmed their offer is a sure thing that can be locked in quickly. I've rented my units on Redweek, but also found that demand has been slow the past year. I suppose the economy is still holding many down.

Once again, thanks for the quick and informative replies. BTW I'm glad your bookings worked out. It seems exchanges for Marriott weeks is still very possible. I expect the numbers will hold up for many years at all the existing resorts that sold as weeks. Several years from now the newer and future resorts that sell as points properties will likely require a points exchange to book. I'm to busy to worry about that future problem and I believe the existing Marriott resorts offer an outstanding list of locations to vacation to.

Cheers!

I am an owner at Marriotts Maui Ocean Club and have been for the last 9 years, I've never had problem with researving my unit during whale season in all those years until the new point system was enacted. This system has devalued my original purchase of an 1 bedroom Ocean Front that I paid top dollar for. For the past few weeks I've tried to book via my legacy owner ship for again, as everone knows, the points received for my unit does not allow me to occupied my unit during Jan,Feb,Mar,Apr and most of the Summer. I have not elected to deposit my unit for the point this year. The new points system opens up my highly demmanded unit to anyone that has enough point to occupy it were I'm not given any preface to reserve it first. I would be very interested in joinning anyone that would like to engage in a class action suit against Marriott for our lost of use and value.

So I am new to this and looking into marriott starwood hilton... they all seem to have point systems and from what I am reading even if have have the points to book over xmas week in hawaii or harborside that unless I am very lucky i probably won't be able too? and some owners get on and book those slots and then turn around and sell them on exchanges? Is this the norm or unusual?

gregm290 - Are you saying that you had problems reserving your week for next year (2012) at the Maui Marriott? Or did you mean that you traded your unit in for points and now can not reserve back into your home resort because you don't have enough points for the week you want to reserve? Maybe I'm missing something. I'm asking because we own at both the Maui Marriott and Kauai Marriotts and had no problem reserving our weeks for 2012 in high demand New Years week and whale watching weeks. However, we used our weeks to reserve full weeks through Marriott - we didn't trade our weeks in for Marriott destination points and then try to reserve. Please explain further, as I want to be sure that we don't run into the problems you seem to be having. Thanks!

I was looking into purchasing a timeshare but reading these boards I am finding that if you buy from marriott on the point system or others that people are having a hard time booking the maui or harborside resorts in high season. the reason I wanted a timeshare was to ensure that I could get my kids together every second or third year over xmas in hawaii or some nice place. I want the security of a home resort but the flexability to trade it. It seems these point systems you can't get that

Hi michaell722, The golden rule that I have always been taught and live by for timeshares is to buy where you want to go during the time period you want to go there.

The theory behind time-sharing is that if you want to go somewhere else and there is someone else that wants to go where you own you can trade. That is the short version. It does get a lot more complicated than that when you get in the system.

But, my opinion and experience has been that, if you want to guaranty that you can go to where you want when you want, that is what you have to buy.

There are a lot of great opportunities to trade around and go to wonderful places. But there are no guaranties that those trades can be made. It all comes down to who else is trading and when.

I hope this helps.

I did not trade the unit for points, I've been trying to book the full week just as I have the past 9 years. Marriott refer to us as Legacy owners that can reserve our Villa as we did before or deposit it to the new destination pts system. I only own one week and therefore can only reserve 12 months out. I also own a ocean front 1 bedroom which ther're only 18 units. When owners trade their villia in to the point system those units become available to the dest. pts system immediately which is now openned up to all marriott owners all over the world. Many people have 3-4 weeks in less desirable places and now can get in via the new point system. This puts alot more demand for our unit than we ever had before. Under the old system only owners who purchased from/at the Maui Ocean Club could reserve their weeks. Even when you banked your unit a week was reserved for it first. The main issue again is as soon as owners deposit into the Dest. Pts system the week/days become immediately available for use by others using points. As you know, they didn't give us enought points to occupy our unit during peak season. This is were Marriott has devalued our investment. They limited my useage to off peak periods. I called Marriott villas reservation to confirm their were not any units, they did. They also said I should try on wed when they become available to reserve. The told them in the past nine years there have always had some weeks left during this 3 months period 9 months out. She confirmed that my availability has been limited for this period.

Gregm290. Thanks for further clarifcation. Hmmm.... I don't know what to say, as our units are also ocean FRONT units on Kauai (one bedroom) and Maui (two bedroom - also limited in number) and we were able to reserve. We called the time Marriott opens on the day it opened 13 months out (reserving multiple consecutive weeks - as whole weeks, not points) and did not have a problem. My understanding from Marriott (and we are Legacy owners who joined the program) is that Destination Points can be traded/reserved at 12 months or 13 months, depending on the level of ownership you have (Premier, Premier Plus etc. And the points can only be used for inventory in a pot which was traded in by points owners.

However, it is our understanding that no one is allowed to reserve more than 13 months out. The only way around this (and this may have been what happened to you) is if you own multiple weeks. For example, if I want to reserve three weeks in Hawaii at Christmas and I want them to be consecutive weeks, I can reserve the first week (i.e. Dec. 23) 13 months ahead on the day it opens for reservation. HOWEVER, I can also reserve the following two weeks (Dec. 30 and January 6) at the same time which means I am getting the 2nd and 3rd week a bit more than 13 months out. This is the way it has always been and we have owned for 16+ years. This makes inventory for that second and third weeks even less for the 13 month reservation when it opens on the appropriate date. While this may seem a bit unfair to some, it is the only way to allow multiple week owners to reserve their weeks in a consecutive fashion. If we are using our Maui week, we sure want to be able to occupy our Kaui weeks at the same time, as do most owners - whether at Grand Ocean, Ocean Point, or Hawaiian properties. This very well may be the reason the inventory is "limited" but I surely can't say that positively. I am worried, also, that our inventory may be limited in the future, but I have no Marriott policies in writing that support that. Everything I have written above is in Marriott documents, but I am still unsure how the Destination points may change things in the future.

One more thing we learned from Marriott many years ago - only half of the weeks (inventory) open up at the 13 month period and the other half at the 12 month point. As far as I know, that has not changed. That protects the single week owner to assure that he/she will have a chance to also get the week desired. However, if a person reserves multiple weeks two weeks before the date you want, it will cut into the inventory, whether they are reserving 12 or 13 months ahead.

On another note, I am more concerned about not ever being able to trade into the new properties that do not have any weeks sold (like Kauai Lagoons) because Marriott has also said that the ONLY way to get into all future properties in the future will be if you use Destination Points to do so. This will mean that the "devaluation" of our points will make it nearly impossible to trade a high season Marriott Kauai Beach Club week into a new property (such as Lakeshore Reserves) in the future. That's exactly why we took a chance to stay at Kauai Lagoons when we had a chance to trade into that property this past New Years. As someone said earlier, there are a lot of wonderful Marriott properties out there that we will always (?) have an ability to trade our weeks to, so I'm hoping that continues even if I can't use points to get in to that property.

Hope this provides some further insight.

Additionally,

kathyw84 You raise one of the primary concerns to non-joining existing owners with the Destination Points program--that is, future Marriott development will only be sold through that program. While there are plenty of destinations available to the legacy week owners currently and the timeshare business is not in an active development phase, it is one of the benefits/concerns of the new program to those who have not joined. While the inventory issue has been well documented, the other related issue is if a large proportion of legacy week owners join and trade into points the inventory for trade at Interval International will decline. This hasn't seemed to be a problem yet but it is a concern to non-joining legacy owners.

marks773

I agree with your concerns. We joined for only two reasons, after I "screamed and hollered" in my own home about it and calmly let many Marriott people know my thoughts and concerns when speaking to them. We joined because 1.) it allowed us to also bring in our non-Marriott purchased properties along with property purchased through Marriott so that they can be traded for Marriott Reward Points. We don't use them much, but it has been a nice option when we wanted to travel to Australia, DC, etc. and 2.) it protects us for the future and the use of new properties to come - and this was the part I was NOT happy with doing! However, we still have one Marriott property that we bought after the deadline so it is not be included.

Again, I agree with your concerns. I think the better plan would have been to keep the weeks-purchase option and bring the points in as a second option, rather than replacing the week option.

Why Marriott didn't keep the current plan of selling actual property and then adding the points program as an option (like they did with legecy owners) is not understandable to me. Marriott obviously thought they could make more money, but the other option would have made more sense to owners.

Kathy and Mark, Thanks for all your excellent insights!

My wife and I are 25 year Marriott timeshare owners, with 3 Hawaii properties and 2 in Palm Desert, all purchased through Marriott. We reluctantly enrolled in the new points program last August, and have all the same concerns that everyone else has expressed. If we were to ever turn all our weeks in for points in a given year (which is highly unlikely), we would get 19,775 points.

Two days ago, while in Maui, we met with a Marriott sales rep to learn more about the new program. Much to our surprise, we were informed that our potential 19,775 points will NEVER be usable for any future new Marriott properties because they differentiate in the new program between "exchange points" (i.e., Legacy owners that exchange their deeded weeks for points) versus "trust points" (which are the newly sold points). However, we were told if we buy 2,000 of the new points (at around $20,000) then all our points could be treated as "trust points". Needless to say, this seems ridiculous, but unfortunately, is true.

What is everyone's understanding about this? I know this is the first time we were aware of this situation.

Just to add some additional comment regarding not being able to reserve into a "new future" resort that only has point sales..... I seem to remember all of us legacy owners being concerned that new points purchasers could take all of our inventory at our deeded week resorts. They cant, we are protected, so why should we be able to trade for points and then take their inventory at the new resorts? Hmm....

Rick - Could you please clarify, as we have been told that "new" points owners (only own points - no weeks) can trade for any points options available, not just new properties. Marriott tried to talk us into buying points so that when we traded in our current properties for points, our total points (new points purchased and points from the trade) would be able to reserve even "more." So I'm unclear as to how a new points owner will not be able to reserve any property with available points inventory.

(Thomas - is this "more" what you are referring to when you say that you have to BUY points in order to use any of your points at a new property ? I do remember a visual showing three buckets, with one being "trust" points. I had forgotten that.)

If I trade my property in for points, I do not understand the reason a person who bought into Marriott in April 2011 (only points) would not be able to use his/her points to reserve what I gave up for points. (If a gave up my week at my home resort to trade a WEEK into another resort, that would be different, and I believe that is what we are "protected" from - points can not pick up that week.) Am I missing something? Does this go back to the "buckets" and that a point really is not just a point - it depends on the type of point?

Or do you mean that the new points owners do not have the ability to trade their points for a WEEK which has been deposited through Marriott or through Interval? I know that is correct (at least what we have been told), and am happy we are already in Marriott. (Or we would enter Marriott by purchasing on the resale market.)

Look forward to your answers, Rick, Thomas, or anyone with insight. Thanks!