Manhattan Club Lawsuit

Let me get this straight. May owners are not paying their yearly maintenance so they can not use their time. TMC is renting out that time to bring in some cash. This is wrong? The units should sit empty? This would just increase the ridiculously high maintenance you are complaining about.

Flavia, Is there a way to get in touch with the county to pay the property taxes directly? Just a thought.

No - there is no way - you can break up the taxes on a building - it is the entire entity that is taxes. If the taxes for the building are not paid, the tax lien is against the building - not the individual units within it.

William - the problem with that reasoning is how do you know just who is receiving the rental proceeds - is the Homeowner's association? Or some other entity - in the past, it was Eichner. How do we really know who is benefiting from these rentals. I find it very difficult to believe that there are no owners in good standing who would not be trying to use their allotted days, week, etc. to be in NYC this time of year.

sunildajs wrote:

Flavia, Is there a way to get in touch with the county to pay the property taxes directly? Just a thought.

It is my understanding you can pay only the taxes. Your bill should include a break out of the fees and taxes...if it doesn't, ask. Mine does. Then, I believe you can send a check to The Manhattan Club for just the tax amount, if you trust them. If you do this you will have documentation that you did it. To be certain I would contact Financial Services and ask...Lynne O'Donnell or Danielle should be able to give you an answer.

Many owners are either using their time or exchanging with RCI. I repeat--Should units stand empty or should they be rented out? Where does the money go? Who knows. Nothing can be accomplished until there is a new owner and some transparency kicks in. Whether it is right or wrong does not matter. A substantial number of people not paying their maintenance has an impact on the entire operation. Union contracts have to be honored, property taxes have to be paid etc. Lets not forget about inflation. Hopefully this will be over soon. Until then I plan to keep enjoying my time in NYC. I am fortunate that I can book nine months in advance.

tulipblossom wrote:

William - the problem with that reasoning is how do you know just who is receiving the rental proceeds - is the Homeowner's association? Or some other entity - in the past, it was Eichner. How do we really know who is benefiting from these rentals. I find it very difficult to believe that there are no owners in good standing who would not be trying to use their allotted days, week, etc. to be in NYC this time of year.

I repeat--Does it make sense for the units to remain empty when they can be rented out. Manhattan is an expensive place to do business. Labor contracts are high. Don't forget about inflation. Property taxes are high. Some day this will all be resolved. Until then, those of us who are paying will still be able to enjoy visiting NYC but at a higher cost because of those not paying. I'm lucky that I can book nine months out. I understand that not everyone can do that.

tulipblossom wrote:

William - the problem with that reasoning is how do you know just who is receiving the rental proceeds - is the Homeowner's association? Or some other entity - in the past, it was Eichner. How do we really know who is benefiting from these rentals. I find it very difficult to believe that there are no owners in good standing who would not be trying to use their allotted days, week, etc. to be in NYC this time of year.

Totally agree with William. Anyone who understands timeshares will understand that planning is essential, particularly if you want to book the highly popular times around the holidays when competition for units is fierce. This is true for any timeshare. Has it ever been established with certainty that units were ever illegally oversold at TMC so that that competition was unfairly exacerbated? I have never been denied my choice of week when I have booked exactly 9 months in advance. Regarding rental of the units, when I bought in 2006, I was told that a plan was being examined to allow owners to rent any unused time and apply it to maintenance fees but it was not a promise or guarantee. With an increasing number of owners having unrealistic expectations from the timeshare arrangement and selfishly not paying their fair share in maintenance fees, a death spiral began to take hold. I think renting those units to defray some of the bad debt would have been a necessary step or this death spiral would have been be much steeper.

I believe that it was established by the attorney's general's investigation that more units had been sold than were legally available. I also was told when I purchased 2 weeks ( shortly after the M. C. began selling time shares) that a rental program would be set up for the owners and they would receive the proceeds if they were unable to use their assigned week. That too was never done. Seems one was set up but Eicher and his cronies received the rental proceeds - not the owners who gave up their weeks and not the HOA. I recently inquired as I have a fixed Dec. penthouse week that I was not going to be able to use this year -I spoke with the penthouse manager who told me there was no plan to have a rental program for the owners who gave up their weeks and were in good standing - I was referred to Int International or told to try to rent my week myself.

Arizona settlement releases timeshare owners from contracts with Diamond Resorts

Lately, in 2015-2017, there were numerous successful lawsuits against the so called "membership for life" industry including timeshare resorts. It's obvious that industry will crash unless it changes the rules.

One of the similar to the MC cases was settled by the Arizona Attorney General vs Diamond Resorts Corporation. Some of the alleged deceptions were related to the amount maintenance fees could increase annually, fraud disclosures during timeshare sales presentations, consumers' ability to resell time-shares to the public, the existence of Diamond buy-back programs, and consumers' ability to rent out their time-shares for a profit. The settlement required to pay the State a total of $800,000, of which $650,000 will be used for consumer restitution for qualifying claims filed and $150,000 for the State’s attorneys’ fees and costs.

The most prominent result of settlement is the establishment of a Relinquishment Remedy Program that allows qualifying consumers, who no longer want their timeshares, to return them to Diamond with no further obligations. An owner may qualify for the relinquishment program if the owner meets some criterias such as: an owner purchased membership in Arizona; an owner purchased from Diamond based on misleading or untrue statements that Diamond employees made during sales presentations; a consumer files a complaint with the Attorney General’s Office within 6 (or 5?)months since the settlement. The consumer complaint MUST include a detailed description of any misrepresentation(s), false or deceptive statement(s), and/or false promise(s) that Diamond’s employees made at the purchase.

Looking at the Arizona case, there is a good chance for lawsuits vs Manhattan Club in the near future.

See article https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2017/05/18/timeshare-holders-released-contracts-following-deceptive-sales-practices/329107001/

@ williamm465 :May I also REPEAT what I had posted on that forum a while ago. The first time I addressed the issue with the public rentals to the MC general manager Joshua A. Wirshba was the year 2009, when, like many other owners, I could not get reservation and found huge amount of MC offerings on several travel sites. I do have a copy of that letter. What was the reason for renting out in 2009-2014???

My suggestion is to look into the AG investigation with eyes opened. "The Office of the Attorney General began investigating the Manhattan Club in 2014 after receiving repeated complaints from shareowners who paid tens of thousands of dollars to become Manhattan Club “owners,” but were unable to make reservations due to a claimed lack of available rooms by the hotel’s operators. At the same time, rooms in the Manhattan Club were being rented over the internet to the general public, in violation of the timeshare’s offering plan." https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/ag-schneiderman-announces-65-million-settlement-midtown-manhattan-timeshare-scammed

Re paying the property taxes on TMC timeshares: There is no way that the City or State of New York is going to calculate and send out individual tax bills to 14,000+ timeshare "owners" for one stupid building.It's too complicated,confusing.and not their responsibility.There are too many varying forms of "ownership" (lots of split "flextime" versions). This was set up so that no one could possibly understand it including the government. When you send a check just to cover the "tax portion only" it simply is money to reduce whatever charges are outstanding on your account be it maintenance,mortgage,etc.The tax bill is in TMC 's name.Your check is not made out to NYC or NYS.

I would like to join the class action suit. How do i go about it? Are you still paying your maintenance fees? I am, but I'm wondering if i should continue to do so. Thanks, M

What happened in 2009 regarding rentals is not relevant to what is happening now. There are many empty units because of those not paying their maintenance. Look at it this way. The rental money taken in will slightly reduce the maintenance increase caused by the non payers.

fibon wrote:

@ williamm465 :May I also REPEAT what I had posted on that forum a while ago. The first time I addressed the issue with the public rentals to the MC general manager Joshua A. Wirshba was the year 2009, when, like many other owners, I could not get reservation and found huge amount of MC offerings on several travel sites. I do have a copy of that letter. What was the reason for renting out in 2009-2014???

My suggestion is to look into the AG investigation with eyes opened. "The Office of the Attorney General began investigating the Manhattan Club in 2014 after receiving repeated complaints from shareowners who paid tens of thousands of dollars to become Manhattan Club “owners,” but were unable to make reservations due to a claimed lack of available rooms by the hotel’s operators. At the same time, rooms in the Manhattan Club were being rented over the internet to the general public, in violation of the timeshare’s offering plan." https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/ag-schneiderman-announces-65-million-settlement-midtown-manhattan-timeshare-scammed

I repeat, just as you have - how do we know who gets the money? I am in good standing with 2 penthouse units but I was told by the M.C. that they did not have a rental program for the owners - that if I'm not able to use my Dec. fixed week, then I had to try to rent it myself OR deposit it with Interval International. How do we know that the HOA is receiving the money from units that the M. C. is renting out?

I never said a check is made out to NYC..because I don't know facts you seem to know....Like I said, anyone can call financial services at TMC...their number is on the website and ask..it never hurts to ask.

gerards23 wrote:

Re paying the property taxes on TMC timeshares: There is no way that the City or State of New York is going to calculate and send out individual tax bills to 14,000+ timeshare "owners" for one stupid building.It's too complicated,confusing.and not their responsibility.There are too many varying forms of "ownership" (lots of split "flextime" versions). This was set up so that no one could possibly understand it including the government. When you send a check just to cover the "tax portion only" it simply is money to reduce whatever charges are outstanding on your account be it maintenance,mortgage,etc.The tax bill is in TMC 's name.Your check is not made out to NYC or NYS.

Well according to posts in here TMC hasn't paid property taxes for years, so even if you send TMC money for taxes it probably won't be used for that anyway.

deborahs528 wrote:

sunildajs wrote:

Flavia, Is there a way to get in touch with the county to pay the property taxes directly? Just a thought.

It is my understanding you can pay only the taxes. Your bill should include a break out of the fees and taxes...if it doesn't, ask. Mine does. Then, I believe you can send a check to The Manhattan Club for just the tax amount, if you trust them. If you do this you will have documentation that you did it. To be certain I would contact Financial Services and ask...Lynne O'Donnell or Danielle should be able to give you an answer.

Actually my post was one of them! Forgot that I had called about them a year ago.

thomasm832 wrote:

I called the 212-NEW YORK info number (311 in NY), got transferred to a finance person (Miss Kane, ID 7091, very nice) and she said TMC hasn't paid taxes since JAN 2016 (the last payment was 8/29/16 toward the JAN taxes). They are supposed to pay quarterly. I also put in a request to try to find out if our taxes were paid, if they can even break them out from the lump MC sum.

You can see the list of public MC financial records by going to the link below, then click on Begin Using ACRIS (top right of main page) > Search Property Records > Parcel Identifier, and entering:

Borough: Manhattan, BLOCK: 1027, LOT: 1155

http://www1.nyc.gov/site/finance/taxes/acris.page

THIS IS THE LINK TO CONTACT NYC DEPT OF FINANCE, TO INQUIRE ABOUT YOUR TAXES (then Online > Property Related > (I assume) Property Tax Account or Property Tax Bill:

http://www1.nyc.gov/site/finance/about/contact-us.page

I will be sending them a message asking if they can confirm if our MC taxes were received. Even if they can't verify our individual taxes I figure it can't hurt to have a number of inquiries for the record.

Still not sure if it is wise to not pay MC anything (including taxes) considering they apparently haven't paid taxes since JAN 2016.

Because I was curious, I wrote Financial Services at TMC, regarding the issue/ question as to whether we can pay our real estate taxes when one is not paying maintenance fees. Here is the answer: Good Afternoon,

I have attached a copy of the budget letter for 2018 fees. This does provide the information as to how the delinquent owners impacts the fees.

If an owner chooses to send a payment for real estate taxes only, they can do so. This will not clear the overall balance on their account, this will not eliminate late charges or finance charges and this will not give them the ability to book reservations on that contract usage year. However, a payment with the request to be applied to property taxes will be applied per the owners request.

Danielle Webb Manhattan Club-Financial Services The Manhattan Club 112 North Courtland St East Stroudsburg, PA 18301 T: 212-453-8334 F: 212.453.8320 E: Danielleweb@tmcny.com

I was not able to attach the budget letter.

As has been pointed out in the past, according to the NYC government the Manhattan Club has been delinquent with property taxes to the City of New York.Because of this information I find it very hard to believe that now these payments of "taxes only" would be applied correctly.

deborahs528 wrote:

Because I was curious, I wrote Financial Services at TMC, regarding the issue/ question as to whether we can pay our real estate taxes when one is not paying maintenance fees. Here is the answer: Good Afternoon,

I have attached a copy of the budget letter for 2018 fees. This does provide the information as to how the delinquent owners impacts the fees.

If an owner chooses to send a payment for real estate taxes only, they can do so. This will not clear the overall balance on their account, this will not eliminate late charges or finance charges and this will not give them the ability to book reservations on that contract usage year. However, a payment with the request to be applied to property taxes will be applied per the owners request.

Danielle Webb Manhattan Club-Financial Services The Manhattan Club 112 North Courtland St East Stroudsburg, PA 18301 T: 212-453-8334 F: 212.453.8320 E: Danielleweb@tmcny.com

I was not able to attach the budget letter.