Manhattan Club Lawsuit

fibon - Righton, righton, righton.

JohnV: alex doesn't exist anymore... has been gone for years and years for all kinds of redweek policy reasons (solicitation & fake identity). You need to read some of the previous posts.

The most accurate information on Redweek is posted on the home page, under resources tab - ask Redweek." There you will find summaries of the investigation and court activity written by Jeff Weir of Redweek.

Nothing useful has been posted on this thread for a while, and I imagine owners who wander in are immediately intimidated by the length of the post (180 pages!) and the general lack of useful information.

I post occasionally to try to redirect those people to the homepage, away from the randomness and inaccuracies that predominate here. I recognize that everyone has a right to be here as long as Redweek allows. But as a non owner, WHY are you still here?

Perhaps you are not bitter about being ripped off. Maybe "angry" is a better fit. I can't read your mind. So I repeat, why are YOU still on an owner's site when you are no longer an owner?

I still think this thread should be shut down with a final post directing visitors to the Redweek summaries on the home page. That's my opinion. That might help new visitors. If you think that's totalitarian, you're entitled; however, I suggest you look up anarchy, because that's what you have now.

Fibon, your post seems vaguely critical of me, but I haven't any idea of what you are saying. "For me your nick turned into null already? " This must be a reference with which I am unfamiliar.

nathanz2, hmm, are you advising? you seem to be opposed to ideas (read advice) to be considered.

chris

nathanz2 wrote:

The most accurate information on Redweek is posted on the home page, under resources tab - ask Redweek." There you will find summaries of the investigation and court activity written by Jeff Weir of Redweek.

Nothing useful has been posted on this thread for a while, and I imagine owners who wander in are immediately intimidated by the length of the post (180 pages!) and the general lack of useful information.

I post occasionally to try to redirect those people to the homepage, away from the randomness and inaccuracies that predominate here. I recognize that everyone has a right to be here as long as Redweek allows. But as a non owner, WHY are you still here?

Perhaps you are not bitter about being ripped off. Maybe "angry" is a better fit. I can't read your mind. So I repeat, why are YOU still on an owner's site when you are no longer an owner?

I still think this thread should be shut down with a final post directing visitors to the Redweek summaries on the home page. That's my opinion. That might help new visitors. If you think that's totalitarian, you're entitled; however, I suggest you look up anarchy, because that's what you have now.

z

kevin631: thanks for the reference . Seems not a lot of owners read the Redweek update on AG AOD, therefore I am just reposting a section from Jeff"s report and believe he is wright in regard that we'll see new litigations against the club in the near future / dear nathanz2 and johnv559 PLZ DO NOT respond to my posts/. ******************************************************************************************* Findings in AG's Case Could Trigger Additional Litigation

While giving some money back to owners, the case could spawn additional lawsuits against the club, according to lawyers interviewed by RedWeek. The AOD, they said, includes specific admissions of wrongdoing that could become evidence in future lawsuits. Here is an example of the stipulated findings in the AOD: the court document says that "certain sales staff" sold timeshare intervals without providing a copy of the offering plan to prospective buyers. Other sales people, meanwhile, made misleading oral statements to buyers about the rescission period, the investment value of TMC timeshares and the club's "willingness to buy back the timeshare interest at the price paid by the purchaser."

The AOD settlement identified several violations of New York's anti-fraud Martin Act, including these findings:

1. The sponsor's sales staff failed to provide copies of the offering plan to purchasers.

2. The club's reservation agents did not abide by the terms of the offering plan, did not always provide reservations to owners on a first-come basis and gave preferential treatment to certain owners through a new-owner hotline.

3. In annual budgets, the sponsors under-reported reserves for bad debts (defaults on maintenance fees). LIES AGAIN !In 2011, the reserve for bad debts was $600,000, while the actual bad debt exceeded $2.09 million. In 2012, the budgeted reserve was $900,000 while the bad debt expense rose to nearly $3.95 million. In 2013, the bad debt reserve was $1 million while the actual debt was $5.17 million. And in 2014, the reserve for bad debts was $1 million while the actual bad debt ballooned to $5.27 million.

3.The court settlement also says that the sponsor implemented aspects of the transient rental program "in an improper manner," but provides no specifics.

To read more go to https://www.redweek.com/resources/ask-redweek#msg-87600

With all these acknowledged findings. I am baffled as to why the A. G. agreed to allow Eichner to pay such a pittance in the settlement. Something is fishy. I'm up for making a contribution towards legal fees for a class action suit. I just don't relish a few of us forking over money to pursue that and if successful, then all the other owners would benefit. Why could we not use some of the legal settlement monies and have the HOA hire attorneys to pursue the class action suit??? Any thoughts, Chris, Irene, and others?

Tulipblossom, a class action suit is usually brought by a law firm on behalf of a class of plaintiffs (in this case, owners). Individuals do not pay to participate; the law firm funds the suit. The suit uses a small number of the best plaintiffs as “lead plaintiffs “ and then has to get certified as a class action to represent all members of the class.

In the end though, it’s the lawyers who fund the suit (and collect a % of the judgement).

The money in the MC settlement has been awarded to individuals, not the HOA, so that money can’t be used unless all those folks choose to donate their individual awards. You will need to find a law firm willing to go head to head with Eichner on a contingency basis. That is a tall order to fill.

By the way, the agreement was signed in August and posted on the AG’s site on Aug 29, over 3 months ago. It was cited here within a few days. Many of the contributors to this thread have either not read it, pretend it doesn’t exist or doesn’t apply to them. Please read it and then read the Redweek summary. Jeff said it “could” lead to litigation. That is closer to “might” than “will.”

I suppose you could sue if you want, and there’s someone here who’s a big proponent of small claims court. Good luck whatever you do.

tulipblossom, i was castigated in this forum for criticizing the nysag's acceptance of the so-called settlement. as i said, he was victorious in winning the case for his employer, new york state, but did next to nothing on owners' behalf. he did his job ineffectively in reference to accepting this settlement "to allow Eichner to pay such a pittance" without further action on his part to have eichner made to deposit an entirely more substantial monetary penalty. tulipb, i'm with you!

in victorious unity, chris

tulipblossom wrote:

With all these acknowledged findings. I am baffled as to why the A. G. agreed to allow Eichner to pay such a pittance in the settlement. Something is fishy. I'm up for making a contribution towards legal fees for a class action suit. I just don't relish a few of us forking over money to pursue that and if successful, then all the other owners would benefit. Why could we not use some of the legal settlement monies and have the HOA hire attorneys to pursue the class action suit??? Any thoughts, Chris, Irene, and others?

Chris - there is no way any logical person could think that the settlement was an equitable one that also carried punishing effects on the crooked Eichner regime. With all the time and money spent, what a slap in the face that settlement was. Perhaps many who read the posts here didn't follow the investigation. I read that Eichner was pocketing over $6,000,000 per year for a number of years and had NO employees doing any kind of "management" for the owners. And yet, we are supposed to be thrilled that the settlement was for a little over $6,000,000. The money he basically stole each year is money that could have gone into the HOA coffers to help offset the obscene maintenance fees increases. I, like you and many others sent information and letters both to the Judge and to the Assistants Attorney Generals assigned to the case. One day I spent 2 hours on the phone with one of the initial A. G. attorneys who had tracked me down and recorded our conversation. So, I too am baffled at why the A. G. thinks he did such a swell job in pursuing this criminal enterprise and obtaining justice. I certainly think he could have used the threat of jail time to arrive at a fairer settlement. But, it is what it is. Now I'm confused as to just who will be obtaining money under the settlement. My reading of the agreement is that not all owners will benefit - what is your take on that? I certainly wish that those of us who supplied the information and continued to press for a fair resolution will be the primary beneficiaries but then who knows????

I think i'm a fairly logical person. I get why the NYSAG settled this case. There are a lot of very rich crooked politicians and wall street and real estate crooks with a lot of lawyers in New York State. The office spent 3 years of investigators and lawyers time in investigating and legal proceedings. While our situation is a high priority for us, it's a drop in the ocean of crimes that NYSAG is dealing with these days. What the AG got was a bad actor OUT of the TS business in NYS, and a different trajectory and perhaps somewhat promising future for TMC owners. At least 14,000 people invested $10-$30 thousand (or more) for time. It would be nice to think that all of the $200-$400 Million ??could be recouped and redistributed to all who've been defrauded, lied to, and screwed over. It ain't gonna happen at this point. Sorting out the future will be enough of a challenge for the Claims Administrator and the new owners... figuring out who is 'in good standing', who got denied time, who's records are OK at the Department of Finance, who's abandoned their contracts etc... That's where the action is going to be in the coming months-years.

I agree with your analysis of the TMC settlement situation. I would like to know how the remaining owners who are in good standing and still wish to use their Manhattan timeshare will fare. Are their maintenance fees going to skyrocket to the stratosphere to make up for all the defaults and bad debts. I would also like to know the composition of the new Board of the Timeshare Members Association.

I'm mostly in agreement as well. However, the first order of business for the new management is organizing a Board representative of MC owners and working with all owners especially those now in arrears on maintenance fees. They should be given options, for example, partial payment of previous years maintenance or the ability to give back their units to the HOA and walk away. But the new managers, who ever they turn out to be, will need to run realistic financial projections for a financially stable MC before anyone starts discounting fees contractually owed the MC. For new management to succeed and maintenance to be kept reasonable for the majority of owners who wish to maintain their interests at the MC, the HOA needs to resolve its relationship with owners who might continue to be resentful. While not a desirable outcome in many cases, the HOA will need to take action promptly after the change in management companies so that this does not continue to fester. I don't expect to see much, if any, payment from the settlement, $250 tops. What I do hope to see is a new transparent management and online reservation syatem. We can only wait and hope.

FYI: Holiday Systems (A membership exchange club) has available to it's members, Studios for $1945.00 and 1 BRs for $2566.00. Need I say more?

I am currently staying at the Manhattan Club and having a fantastic time. The place never looked better and the staff more helpful. NYC at holiday time is the best! But I booked exactly 9 months out so no problem. In fact we have done this every other year for the past 8 years with no issues! Please enjoy your timeshare and NYC!

Sure if one can book nine months out it isn't a problem. But there are many of us who can't do that and were never told when we purchased that we had to reserve nine months out. Never mind the outrageous fees we are paying because of the criminal behavior of the Eichers.

We too, would book 9 months in advance and usually be able to book our stay. We stopped paying 1 year ago, when the rooms we were given were dirty, the furniture threadbare and the wallpaper peeling. In addition the maintenance rose to $2850.00 or $407.00 per night on an apartment I had paid $40,000.00 for. The lobby usually looks like a refuge camp. Do you really think this a great venue?

We are also owners. Are there options for getting out of the contract. Worst experience I have ever had. Can Just stop paying fees greatly effect your credit.

You have to be kidding if you are content with having to book an over priced illegal operation as the MC 9 months in advance Is acceptable. I will gladly sell you our share for peanuts. Just send me an email.

I understand. I hope they rot in hell.