Manhattan Club Lawsuit

You mean per year, right? I think my mom's maintenance fees are around $2000/year. (Which she is no longer paying.)

chrisv126 wrote:

hi, robertb1802,

bob, you present an eye-opener. if the NYSAG has gathered, and you have found, this mound of incriminating information about TMC, have you any idea why the case has met with so many roadblocks to an equitable settlement? perhaps a court referee should step in and demand expediency and speed in resolving this whole mess of a court case.

thanks for doing this thorough "homework" which could be of great benefit to all of us TMC owners. perhaps this information can be channeled to a court overseer (referee) who will influence a more expedient settlement of this court case, both on the parts of the attorneys and the judge.

i have been a victim of the same fraud and issues that you have. i have done some homework as well and found that, overall, no other timeshare in the united states charges more than $1,200 per week in maintenance fees. TMC'S weekly fees for various accommodations approaches the $3,000 per week mark. UNSCRUPULOUS as you say. is there no regulation concerning this matter?..... a rhetorical queston as we owners all know. where does the court fit into this fraudulent scheme?

anyway, pls keep in touch.

chris

robertb1802 wrote:

Frustrated over our inability to ever get a room at our timeshare, I started googling a couple of years ago to see if there were other owners as frustrated as I was. I really got an education when I found the RedWeek.com site, and reviewed all the pages of postings on their “Manhattan Club Lawsuit” link. There are literally thousands of owners who feel as cheated as I do, who have posted complaints. I've been following the RedWeek site since then, and the majority of owners have the same complaint; for years, despite paying our fees, we have been routinely cheated out of the use of our timeshare while the Eichner family and a small circle of TMC insiders have enriched themselves at our expense. The icing on the cake for me and my wife, and what finally convinced us to stop paying TMC, was when we read the NY Attorney General's July, 2015 court filing, which itemizes a remarkable list of allegations of civil and criminal conduct on the part of The Manhattan Club. This includes the charge that for years, Eichner has been personally skimming 4-6 million dollars a year from TMC through a shell management company that had no employees and provided no services what so ever to the operation of the timeshare property. In reading through the filing, I got sick as I learned how badly we have been cheated and how unscrupulous and devious the principals at TMC were as they perpetrated their fraud against us; in our case, for over 10 years. They denied us the rooms we were entitled to while renting those same rooms to the general public via the Internet. The enormity of the fraud and the magnitude of the numbers is staggering... at least 14,000 owners, 250 rooms, 52 weeks a year ( in some cases they actually sold more than 52 weeks a year per unit!) at $2500-$4000 annual maintenance payments each. If you haven't already read this court filing, it is a MUST read for any Manhattan Club owner. Here is the link to that 2015 AG court filing: You may have to paste it into your browser. You’ll be astounded at the mountain of evidence the AG has collected during his investigation of TMC. Reading it convinced us we had been defrauded, our contract broken, and would no longer honor it ourselves.

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=arMAhc2Z8epneiTXUbb_PLUS_yQ==&system=prod

By simply withholding the last two years' maintenance payments for 2 units, and mortgage payment for one, I'm more than $10,000 ahead. Knowing what we now know, I'm amazed that anyone would voluntarily continue to send these crooks money. I encourage all owners to revoke your credit card authorization, stop sending checks or close your account. Just stop funding the effort of the very people who are screwing us.

Bob Biello

thomasm832, NO, maintenance fees are for ONE WEEK'S OWNERSHIP. IT IS NOT ANNUAL, E.G, IF YOU OWN 2 WEEKS IT'S $3,000 PER WEEK ($6,000). IT IS NOT CONSIDERED AN ANNUAL MAINTENANCE FEE.......WHICH AT $3,000/WEEK WOULD AMOUNT TO $156,000.........PLUS THE ANNUAL REAL ESTATE TAX.

keep in touch.

chris

thomasm832 wrote:

You mean per year, right? I think my mom's maintenance fees are around $2000/year. (Which she is no longer paying.)

chrisv126 wrote:

hi, robertb1802,

bob, you present an eye-opener. if the NYSAG has gathered, and you have found, this mound of incriminating information about TMC, have you any idea why the case has met with so many roadblocks to an equitable settlement? perhaps a court referee should step in and demand expediency and speed in resolving this whole mess of a court case.

thanks for doing this thorough "homework" which could be of great benefit to all of us TMC owners. perhaps this information can be channeled to a court overseer (referee) who will influence a more expedient settlement of this court case, both on the parts of the attorneys and the judge.

i have been a victim of the same fraud and issues that you have. i have done some homework as well and found that, overall, no other timeshare in the united states charges more than $1,200 per week in maintenance fees. TMC'S weekly fees for various accommodations approaches the $3,000 per week mark. UNSCRUPULOUS as you say. is there no regulation concerning this matter?..... a rhetorical queston as we owners all know. where does the court fit into this fraudulent scheme?

anyway, pls keep in touch.

chris

robertb1802 wrote:

Frustrated over our inability to ever get a room at our timeshare, I started googling a couple of years ago to see if there were other owners as frustrated as I was. I really got an education when I found the RedWeek.com site, and reviewed all the pages of postings on their “Manhattan Club Lawsuit” link. There are literally thousands of owners who feel as cheated as I do, who have posted complaints. I've been following the RedWeek site since then, and the majority of owners have the same complaint; for years, despite paying our fees, we have been routinely cheated out of the use of our timeshare while the Eichner family and a small circle of TMC insiders have enriched themselves at our expense. The icing on the cake for me and my wife, and what finally convinced us to stop paying TMC, was when we read the NY Attorney General's July, 2015 court filing, which itemizes a remarkable list of allegations of civil and criminal conduct on the part of The Manhattan Club. This includes the charge that for years, Eichner has been personally skimming 4-6 million dollars a year from TMC through a shell management company that had no employees and provided no services what so ever to the operation of the timeshare property. In reading through the filing, I got sick as I learned how badly we have been cheated and how unscrupulous and devious the principals at TMC were as they perpetrated their fraud against us; in our case, for over 10 years. They denied us the rooms we were entitled to while renting those same rooms to the general public via the Internet. The enormity of the fraud and the magnitude of the numbers is staggering... at least 14,000 owners, 250 rooms, 52 weeks a year ( in some cases they actually sold more than 52 weeks a year per unit!) at $2500-$4000 annual maintenance payments each. If you haven't already read this court filing, it is a MUST read for any Manhattan Club owner. Here is the link to that 2015 AG court filing: You may have to paste it into your browser. You’ll be astounded at the mountain of evidence the AG has collected during his investigation of TMC. Reading it convinced us we had been defrauded, our contract broken, and would no longer honor it ourselves.

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=arMAhc2Z8epneiTXUbb_PLUS_yQ==&system=prod

By simply withholding the last two years' maintenance payments for 2 units, and mortgage payment for one, I'm more than $10,000 ahead. Knowing what we now know, I'm amazed that anyone would voluntarily continue to send these crooks money. I encourage all owners to revoke your credit card authorization, stop sending checks or close your account. Just stop funding the effort of the very people who are screwing us.

Bob Biello

Chris, I didn't respond right away and now can't find your question re inheritance. I have an old article from timesharespecialists.com. You might call them re more information.

hi fellow defrauded MANHATTAN CLUB TIMESHARE OWNERS,

i found the the following information via GOOGLE (average weekly maintenance fees for united states timeshares." here is one the answers that i scrolled through:

"Large timeshare sellers are reluctant to be upfront about cost. The American Resort Development Association (ARDA), a trade group for timeshare companies, said in 2012 that the average cost of a timeshare is around $19,000, with an annual maintenance fee of $660. Understand this: there are ways to make timeshares work.Sep 16, 2014"..... another reason to believe that timeshare companies are either unregulated or under-regulated as arda itself seems to prove by not stopping (TMC's) escalating and ridiculously exorbitant maintenance fees. in addition they readily indicate that $660 is the going rate for these fees.

.............rather telling since TMC'S weekly maintenance fees for some suites approaches over $3,000. others, over $2,500. is there something awry here?

chris

Yesterday I received an e-mail from TMC asking me to pay for the unit we inherited . Today I received a phone call. The person asked me why we had not paid. I mentioned to her that the unit goes from June to June so it couldn't be due yet. She then agreed that we were not overdue but it had always been paid in Nov. I , then, informed her we would pay when due and not before. Getting desperate?

Unfortunately, I do not think that billing or requesting maintenance fees and taxes well in advance of due date is a sign of desperation. My credit card was charged for maintenance fees 7 months in advance the first year I "owned" and since then every year I have received letters, phone calls, etc. urging me to pay fees beginning at least 6 months ahead of due date. After that first year I cancelled my credit card and now pay only with checks, which I send by registered mail to be sure that my account is credited in a timely manner and I will not be charged late fees.

I believe this is just standard practice for TMC.

marionf26 wrote:

Yesterday I received an e-mail from TMC asking me to pay for the unit we inherited . Today I received a phone call. The person asked me why we had not paid. I mentioned to her that the unit goes from June to June so it couldn't be due yet. She then agreed that we were not overdue but it had always been paid in Nov. I , then, informed her we would pay when due and not before. Getting desperate?

To all those inquiring about your heirs being saddled with this albatross: I have been a practicing estates lawyer in NY for nearly 50 years. The information given to you by Laura (I believe her name was) was basically correct: your beneficiary cannot be "forced" to inherit (and therefore have to pay for maintenance etc.) for the timeshare. The legal route is to execute a disclaimer within 9 months after death, and make sure that you do NOT accept the timeshare by using it or otherwise indicating acceptance (e.g., trying to sell it as if you own it). However, each state has its own laws as to how one disclaims. Generally, one of the prior posts was correct; you can't "pick and chose", that is, disclaim the timeshare but accept everything else. The proper way to do it is, generally, for you to bequeath the time share in a separate provision from the rest of the assets disposed of in your Will (or trust), then provide that if the particular legatee to whom you've bequeathed the timeshare disclaims it, THEN DIRECT THAT IT IS BEQUEATHED BACK TO THE MANHATTAN CLUB. That will give your beneficiary the option of seeing how things lie in the 9 months after your death, and either accept it if things have been worked out; or disclaim it and sock that sucker back to the Club. Note though: the Club can then also disclaim it, so there are some further fine points legal steps that must be implemented in your Will or trust to deal with that possibility. But most definitely your heirs are NOT bound to accept the timeshare and make the payments if a proper disclaimer strategy is included in your estate planning documentys

Steven: Thank you so much for sharing all this most helpful legal information and sound advice on protecting our heirs. It's much appreciated.

I should have said disturbing not desperate. I will pay when due and not before. At least, I will pay.

Steven: Since, as an estate attorney, you were providing general estate planning advice, I have posted your advice on our Diamond Resorts Advocacy Group as there have been several up-sell complaints claiming the member bought more points only because they were told that was the only way heirs can be released from their timeshare contract. We very much appreciate your advice. I worked with several estate planning attorneys in Hawaii helping my clients plan or settle estates. I came to the conclusion there is no such thing as a simple estate.

Here is timeshare attorney Mike Finn's article on timeshare and inheritance

http://www.finnlawgroup.com/learning-center/inheriting-a-timeshare-interest-inevitable-or-preventable

We have owned at TMC since 2005....always paid on time. In the beginning, we could make reservations and stay whenever we wanted. THEN it became harder and harder to get a reservation when we wanted. It was a use or lose situation and they would offer us Monday nights....in order to use up our time. A couple of years ago, they invited us to a meeting with RCI to convert to points which would give us more access to rooms. We were stupid enough to pay 5K to convert to points. Now we can book a year in advance. WHOOPIE. SO we book our favorite weekend a year in advance now. However, I had friends coming in from out of town and wanted to stay one night mid week and couldn't get a room. SO I went on Hotels.com to find a hotel and low and behold, there was TMC!!! So I was able to book via Hotels.com an apartment just like the one I paid 20K for in 2005 for $300.00 for the night. With the maintenance fees that I pay, I might as well just stop paying and book the apartment for $300. a night on Hotels.com. Other than losing the now 25K I have "invested" in TMC, there is no point in owning there anymore. We are hanging on because we hope that some settlement will happen if the AG ever gets his act together to settle the case.

keep away from rci..............they're no better than tmc

Hi to everyone. I suffer with you, owner since 2001 and concerned about credit score if I stop paying my fees ( I have seen posts about stopping and not being punished. I am still paying and hoping that the court will resolve it and free us all. Thanks for the advice on the inheritance, this I can take care of now. TMC is a burden I want to get rid off, as others I was notable to sell it, give it back - it is drag. Is there a new letter or petition ? Is it still add any value to contact AG ? I think I would like to get in touch with attorneys in NY, does anyone has a contact info for Doug Wasser or Lowell Sidney? Sylwia

I just spent a week at my timeshare with my cousin from Iceland and had a great time. Everyone at the club is very nice and accommodating...while I had one or two minor things I could pick on, overall I don't see a noticeable decline in service/amenities or the property.

I spoke with 3 couples, none of whom had heard of this forum. They all did say they weren't thrilled with the escalating fees, but all loved the club and make full use of it. One couple, from South Carolina, said that when they did their will and trust, they left the timeshare out of the trust and shared that when they die the timeshare is gone...that there will be no issues in terms of inheritance. They seemed very sure of that.

It is seems like it depends on what state you are from, how the will/trust can be written to not have an inheritance issue with the timeshare. Also, I know from personal experience that depending on the total value of one's inheritance, the state of NY requires one to file an ancillary probate with the state of NY if you own this timeshare with TMC.

We have been members for some time and have been incredibly inconvienced at having to book 9 months ahead but because we really enjoy going to the Manhatten club we have put up with it. This year and last year has been especially difficult as we have had to reschedule our visit and are unable to get nights that work for us. We have a reservation for next week, May 14-17 and now it looks like we may not be able to use them. We don't want to go in the summer and our year is up in July. It looks like anyone can reserve those nights at the Manhatten club for less than it costs us as owners. Needless to say - we are furious! Any suggestions?

I sent a letter to the Attorney General, and to Judge Rakower a month or so ago which reccomended the appointment of a Special Master to untangle the TMC mess (who owns, who doesn’t, what Dept of Finance records show vs those of TMC). I received this response a week ago.

HERE IS THE TEXT OF THE REPLY:

This office has received your correspondence about the Manhattan Club and has added your name and contact information to our files.

Thank you for reaching out to us; it was because of information provided by Manhattan Club purchasers like you that we were able to commence the General Business Law Section 354 public investigation in the New York State Supreme Court, New York County, identified as in the Matter of an Inquiry by Eric T. Schneiderman, Index No. 451536/2014. The goal of our investigation is to address allegations that have been made about the practices of the Manhattan Club. If, as a result of the investigation, we are able to prove that the law has been broken, we hope to be able to provide relief for all of the affected Manhattan Club purchasers.

In the meantime, because there are more than 14,000 Manhattan Club purchasers, we are not able to contact everyone. So we may or may not be reaching out to you for further information. If we require additional information from you, we will contact you directly.

Please note that this Office does not represent individual complainants in court, nor can we provide individual legal advice. If you have questions about how the investigation will affect you, you may want to consult your own private counsel.

Thank you for….. signed by Louis Solomon Esq. State of N.Y. Office of the Attorney General; Division of Economic Justice Chief of Enforcement Real Estate Finance Bureau

I also am a owner at the Manhattan Club and have owned for over 15 yrs. Early on the reservations were easy to reserve, as time went on they became harder and harder, finally almost impossible, and likewise time was lost that I had paid for. The fees have escalated unlike any other timeshares I own. I as other owners need the AG and that department to resolve this matter as soon as possible, as most owners do not even know what is happening. Let the TMC management buy back the units from each owner, if they request, and do what they wish with the units. Taking money from the owners, not letting them use it, and re-booking those units to outsiders for rent is illegal, and that needs to stop. The law needs to stand behind the owners, who are being held hostage by this situation. Everything that needs to be done to correct this, must be done in a timely manner. All efforts so far are appreciated, but allowing delay after delay, is not in anyone's best interest.

Regards, Henry Dunster, Owner at the Manhattan Club

Yes--The thing that is different about TMC is its location. Do you know anything about NYC. Labor contracts are very high as are real estate values. I have a number of timeshares. The maintenance fees are about $560, $1200, $1400, and TMC at about $2700. Welcome to NYC.

An previous post, perhaps a year or son ago, informed us that the Attorney General's investigators had discovered what seems to have been fraud; that the management company that was being paid huge amounts of money from our maintenance fees had no employees and provided no services; that it was owned by the developer and his family. I can't give you the date of the posting, but it is somewhere on this site.

williamm465 wrote:

Yes--The thing that is different about TMC is its location. Do you know anything about NYC. Labor contracts are very high as are real estate values. I have a number of timeshares. The maintenance fees are about $560, $1200, $1400, and TMC at about $2700. Welcome to NYC.

We understand the labor costs and the location. That is why we purchased their. That does not give the management to commit fraud and take money from both ends, while not allowing it's owners to use what they purchased. By agreeing that costs are high in NYC, and allowing management to take money that is not theirs, is against the law, and is fraud. That is why AG is looking into the matter. We need every owner to stand up to illegal actions by anyone, and not justify why they are charging too much