Manhattan Club Lawsuit

hi deborahs528,

your news "hit home"..............my two "kids" will be happy to read about this. i expect that many other defrauded manhattan club owners will see this as welcome information. i will proceed with caution concerning the overall legalities of heirs declining to accept some of what will be passed on to them. i will continue to seek counsel about this matter and pass on any other pertinent information in this forum. please do the same. thanks for this very informative and important piece of news. keep in touch.

chris

deborahs528 wrote:

Fellow owners...I just read an article in AARP, April 2017...the question was asked: I own vacation time shares "in perpetuity" (we we all do with TMC)..Does that mean my children may be forced to accept them and continue montlhy payments when I die? The answer was: Heirs cannot be forced to pay on a contract that they never agreed to.. They may owe any outstanding fees or debt, but payments stop when the estate closes and the assets are distributed to heirs. I was led to believe by my lawyer and TMC that I was responsible and had to accept the timeshares. I asked can I refuse these and I was told I could refuse my whole inheritance but not parts of it, like these timeshares. So I did what I was advised, put them in my name and now own them...One I gave back for $100 that I have not yet seen. Anyway, Robert Clements, vice president of regulatory affairs at the American Resort Development Association says inheritors can formally refuse ("disclaim") the inheritance of timeshares. So for those of you with kids and concern about this issue, you have your answer...just be sure your kids know.

what is Alex Crystals email the one posted does not go through how do we join the class actin suit? Bruce Dolin

Please send me the info also

Folks, there is no class action law suit. The lawyer you're looking for from a very old post was determined by Redweek to not be legitimate. The only active legal proceeding is that of the New York State Attorney General. If you navigate back to previous posts for the last month or two, all will be revealed.

Chris From what you wrote, it sounds to me like you have sought legal counsel concerning this issue of inheritance of time shares. If you are willing to share, I would love to know what your attorney has told you. Thank you

chrisv126 wrote:

hi deborahs528,

your news "hit home"..............my two "kids" will be happy to read about this. i expect that many other defrauded manhattan club owners will see this as welcome information. i will proceed with caution concerning the overall legalities of heirs declining to accept some of what will be passed on to them. i will continue to seek counsel about this matter and pass on any other pertinent information in this forum. please do the same. thanks for this very informative and important piece of news. keep in touch.

chris

deborahs528 wrote:

Fellow owners...I just read an article in AARP, April 2017...the question was asked: I own vacation time shares "in perpetuity" (we we all do with TMC)..Does that mean my children may be forced to accept them and continue montlhy payments when I die? The answer was: Heirs cannot be forced to pay on a contract that they never agreed to.. They may owe any outstanding fees or debt, but payments stop when the estate closes and the assets are distributed to heirs. I was led to believe by my lawyer and TMC that I was responsible and had to accept the timeshares. I asked can I refuse these and I was told I could refuse my whole inheritance but not parts of it, like these timeshares. So I did what I was advised, put them in my name and now own them...One I gave back for $100 that I have not yet seen. Anyway, Robert Clements, vice president of regulatory affairs at the American Resort Development Association says inheritors can formally refuse ("disclaim") the inheritance of timeshares. So for those of you with kids and concern about this issue, you have your answer...just be sure your kids know.

deborahs528, at the time my wife and i revised our wills (a few years ago), , the timeshare issue came up, but (for whatever reason, at the time) no firm answers were forthcoming from our attorney. i suspect he wasn't aware of the problems involved with timeshare ownership and passing it on to our grown children (heirs)......and the consequences of their declining to accept ownership, especially of the fraud-ridden MANHATTAN CLUB. since your very helpful post, i will pursue the issue again with the attorney (or another attorney if no concrete answers are forthcoming from the former.) be assured that i will share any and all pertinent information on this forum for all of us in this predicament. please do likewise. i hope others in this redweek.com forum are noting our posts concerning this issue and they will share legal information with all of us

. i am looking forward to some favorable closure, to our monetary benefit, of this messy and somewhat bungled lawsuit. i believe it's been over 4 years since its inception and we're still quite a distance to a concrete settlement expressly to TMC timeshare owners benefit. if the outcome is favorable to us, i will seek fair compensation for the lack of reservation time and especially the exorbitant maintenance fees. i've done (minimal) "homework" about maintenance fees charged at other upscale timeshares, and few if any that i've seen have maintenance fees higher than $900 to $1200 per week.

anyway, pls keep in touch.

chris

deborahs528 wrote:

Chris From what you wrote, it sounds to me like you have sought legal counsel concerning this issue of inheritance of time shares. If you are willing to share, I would love to know what your attorney has told you. Thank you

chrisv126 wrote:

hi deborahs528,

your news "hit home"..............my two "kids" will be happy to read about this. i expect that many other defrauded manhattan club owners will see this as welcome information. i will proceed with caution concerning the overall legalities of heirs declining to accept some of what will be passed on to them. i will continue to seek counsel about this matter and pass on any other pertinent information in this forum. please do the same. thanks for this very informative and important piece of news. keep in touch.

chris

deborahs528 wrote:

Fellow owners...I just read an article in AARP, April 2017...the question was asked: I own vacation time shares "in perpetuity" (we we all do with TMC)..Does that mean my children may be forced to accept them and continue montlhy payments when I die? The answer was: Heirs cannot be forced to pay on a contract that they never agreed to.. They may owe any outstanding fees or debt, but payments stop when the estate closes and the assets are distributed to heirs. I was led to believe by my lawyer and TMC that I was responsible and had to accept the timeshares. I asked can I refuse these and I was told I could refuse my whole inheritance but not parts of it, like these timeshares. So I did what I was advised, put them in my name and now own them...One I gave back for $100 that I have not yet seen. Anyway, Robert Clements, vice president of regulatory affairs at the American Resort Development Association says inheritors can formally refuse ("disclaim") the inheritance of timeshares. So for those of you with kids and concern about this issue, you have your answer...just be sure your kids know.

This sounds like good news re inherited time shares, but probably checking with lawyers well versed in timeshares would be appropriate. As a residential realtor for 40 years, the AARP info would be contrary to typical residential real estate law. Most real estate contracts of sale have a clause indicating that sale is binding upon buyer and his heirs, meaning if buyer dies prior to closing, his heirs are still responsible for the transaction. However, in many cases selling party may very well not hold the heirs to the terms of the contract or may negotiate some sort of settlement. Timeshares are certainly different in many ways and it would not shock me to find that inheritance re timeshare might be quite different. Most attorneys doing residential real estate closings and some estate work probably don't know that much about timeshare law. Dee

hi drusillam2, i suspected a hitch from someone. do you know the "type of" or specialist attorney who is totally knowledgeable about timeshare ownership and willing it to others, children/relatives in this case? i checked with my original attorney (who wasn't much help) again, and he said to peruse the contract/deed to find a clause concerning this matter......as you noted in your remarks. perhaps you can lead us to find an appropriate and timeshare-knowledgeable attorney regarding this matter of heir responsibilities and rights regarding willed items, to wit declining the manhattan club timeshare if willed to them. my non-legal, but common sense line of thinking leads me to believe that if heirs who don't want something that's willed to them, they needn't accept it. they were not a part of the original timeshare contract, so they do not have any contractual obligation.

the proverbial plot thickens!!

thanks for the info.

pls keep in touch.

chris

drusillam2 wrote:

This sounds like good news re inherited time shares, but probably checking with lawyers well versed in timeshares would be appropriate. As a residential realtor for 40 years, the AARP info would be contrary to typical residential real estate law. Most real estate contracts of sale have a clause indicating that sale is binding upon buyer and his heirs, meaning if buyer dies prior to closing, his heirs are still responsible for the transaction. However, in many cases selling party may very well not hold the heirs to the terms of the contract or may negotiate some sort of settlement. Timeshares are certainly different in many ways and it would not shock me to find that inheritance re timeshare might be quite different. Most attorneys doing residential real estate closings and some estate work probably don't know that much about timeshare law. Dee

I just had this discussion with my attorney. He advised to keep any timeshares out of the trust. That would give heirs ability to reject the ownership.

Interesting comment from your attorney about leaving timeshare out of your trust. My trust has a clause placing everything possibly left out into the trust. When we bought TMCNY in '05 it was purchased in the trust. Usually attorneys recommend reviewing trusts every 5 years. Ours is overdue but we may move to a different state in the near future and then plan to review trust with attorney in that state. However, I plan to try to find an attorney familiar with timeshare law - not sure where. At any rate, if your attorney is correct, we would need to change ownership of our TMCNY from the trust to us, since the deed is currently in the name of our living trust.

Hi folks, I wrote Mr. Clements of ARDA, American Resort Development Association (http://www.arda.org) to share our story with him and ask if he could shed any more light or give advice as to how to find a good real estate attorney...re: the inheritance issue... check out the site as one of their missions is establishing ethics in the business of time shares...

deborahs528 wrote:

Fellow owners...I just read an article in AARP, April 2017...the question was asked: I own vacation time shares "in perpetuity" (we we all do with TMC)..Does that mean my children may be forced to accept them and continue montlhy payments when I die? The answer was: Heirs cannot be forced to pay on a contract that they never agreed to.. They may owe any outstanding fees or debt, but payments stop when the estate closes and the assets are distributed to heirs. I was led to believe by my lawyer and TMC that I was responsible and had to accept the timeshares. I asked can I refuse these and I was told I could refuse my whole inheritance but not parts of it, like these timeshares. So I did what I was advised, put them in my name and now own them...One I gave back for $100 that I have not yet seen. Anyway, Robert Clements, vice president of regulatory affairs at the American Resort Development Association says inheritors can formally refuse ("disclaim") the inheritance of timeshares. So for those of you with kids and concern about this issue, you have your answer...just be sure your kids know.

ARDA ROC does not act on behalf of individual owners to resolve disputes. ARDA ROC is the owner arm of ARDA "Resort Owners Coalition". I have followed TMC case and have stayed in touch with attorney Douglas Wasser. Diamond Resort members have been emailing ARDA ROC claiming our developer is violating ARDA's Code of Ethics. http://www.arda.org/ethics/ This has generated a response from ARDA. Our maintenance fees and most resorts have a $3 to $10 voluntary donation to ARDA ROC as an "opt-in" as in the case of Marriott or an "opt-out" as in the case of Diamond. Most members probably don't even know what the letters stand for but voluntary is a good word so say yes to the donation. ARDA ROC takes in $3 to $5 million a year from our donations. When an issue benefits both the developer and the owner we walk in step, like the Virgin Islands issue trying to slap a $300 exchange fee onto an exchange. When an owner issue is at odds with the developer (like the article Jeff Weir wrote about concerning access to membership lists), ARDA/ARDA ROC is forcefully on the side of the developer, lobbying lawmakers to influence their side. A good example is the Florida TS bill that owner advocates were up in arms over as all the advocate groups felt it made it more difficult for owners to be released from TS contracts. consumer@arda-roc.org

Very interesting, since we all know that timeshares are in general in dire need of ethics. Great information. Many thanks.

Thank you for the information, disappointing as it is. However, I wasn't expecting or asking Mr. Clements to resolve our issue. He is the Vice President of the Organization ARDA who said heirs could refuse inheritance of time shares and I am trying to establish that this is true which through my own personal experience is not an easy thing to do. Other than that, I asked if he had any further advice or how to find a good real estate attorney. I felt I had nothing to lose to ask.

irenep59 wrote:

ARDA ROC does not act on behalf of individual owners to resolve disputes. ARDA ROC is the owner arm of ARDA "Resort Owners Coalition". I have followed TMC case and have stayed in touch with attorney Douglas Wasser. Diamond Resort members have been emailing ARDA ROC claiming our developer is violating ARDA's Code of Ethics. http://www.arda.org/ethics/ This has generated a response from ARDA. Our maintenance fees and most resorts have a $3 to $10 voluntary donation to ARDA ROC as an "opt-in" as in the case of Marriott or an "opt-out" as in the case of Diamond. Most members probably don't even know what the letters stand for but voluntary is a good word so say yes to the donation. ARDA ROC takes in $3 to $5 million a year from our donations. When an issue benefits both the developer and the owner we walk in step, like the Virgin Islands issue trying to slap a $300 exchange fee onto an exchange. When an owner issue is at odds with the developer (like the article Jeff Weir wrote about concerning access to membership lists), ARDA/ARDA ROC is forcefully on the side of the developer, lobbying lawmakers to influence their side. A good example is the Florida TS bill that owner advocates were up in arms over as all the advocate groups felt it made it more difficult for owners to be released from TS contracts. consumer@arda-roc.org

I just got my 2018 bill. It spells out the tax portion, which I plan to pay with an accompanying letter specifying that the proceeds are for 2018 taxes only. I am also sending TMC Financial Service Dep't a letter telling them I will pay the Recurring Maintenance Charges if they will agree and reply in writing to the following: "No portion of this may be used for legal defense of Board members or other legal matters not immediately and directly related to the maintenance of TMC premises on 7th Ave., NY, NY." I have no idea if this is a viable tactic, but don't want the Board siphoning off money from maintenance to protect themselves from prosecution. If we can turn off the money spigot we may get someone's attention.

You can legally refuse a timeshare that you've inherited if you do it within 9 mos. and don't ever use it.

Hey everyone, I'm a latecomer to this thread. I have "points" with Bluegreen Manhattan Club II and I've been trying to get out of the contract, but they won't buy back, etc. I had contacted the Timeshare Exit Team last year and wasn't ready to do it and I called them back today and they are no longer taking anyone with the Manhattan Club with all the lawsuits happening. I still have a $10,000 mortgage with them I've been paying on time since I "bought" the timeshare in 2013. I will also be billed my annual fees in May to around $900+. From reading posts here a lot of people have opted to stop paying the maintenance fees. I have not used the timeshare in 3 years but paid all my fees up until now. With all the legal action going on can I not pay the yearly fee? I want out of the contract and it seems there is no end to it. I tried to take my bank account off the Equient website and it won't let me remove my bank account...do you all still pay your monthly mortgage bill if you have one or have you stopped that as well? I thought I read somewhere that it isn't real real estate or something was not legitimate. I'm just looking for some advice on what to do and if/how I need to contact the credit unions if I don't pay next month. If they won't buy it back, I don't feel like I should be paying for a mortgage every month if it has no value and isn't actual real estate? Please help, I am confused!

Frustrated over our inability to ever get a room at our timeshare, I started googling a couple of years ago to see if there were other owners as frustrated as I was. I really got an education when I found the RedWeek.com site, and reviewed all the pages of postings on their “Manhattan Club Lawsuit” link. There are literally thousands of owners who feel as cheated as I do, who have posted complaints. I've been following the RedWeek site since then, and the majority of owners have the same complaint; for years, despite paying our fees, we have been routinely cheated out of the use of our timeshare while the Eichner family and a small circle of TMC insiders have enriched themselves at our expense. The icing on the cake for me and my wife, and what finally convinced us to stop paying TMC, was when we read the NY Attorney General's July, 2015 court filing, which itemizes a remarkable list of allegations of civil and criminal conduct on the part of The Manhattan Club. This includes the charge that for years, Eichner has been personally skimming 4-6 million dollars a year from TMC through a shell management company that had no employees and provided no services what so ever to the operation of the timeshare property. In reading through the filing, I got sick as I learned how badly we have been cheated and how unscrupulous and devious the principals at TMC were as they perpetrated their fraud against us; in our case, for over 10 years. They denied us the rooms we were entitled to while renting those same rooms to the general public via the Internet. The enormity of the fraud and the magnitude of the numbers is staggering... at least 14,000 owners, 250 rooms, 52 weeks a year ( in some cases they actually sold more than 52 weeks a year per unit!) at $2500-$4000 annual maintenance payments each. If you haven't already read this court filing, it is a MUST read for any Manhattan Club owner. Here is the link to that 2015 AG court filing: You may have to paste it into your browser. You’ll be astounded at the mountain of evidence the AG has collected during his investigation of TMC. Reading it convinced us we had been defrauded, our contract broken, and would no longer honor it ourselves.

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=arMAhc2Z8epneiTXUbb_PLUS_yQ==&system=prod

By simply withholding the last two years' maintenance payments for 2 units, and mortgage payment for one, I'm more than $10,000 ahead. Knowing what we now know, I'm amazed that anyone would voluntarily continue to send these crooks money. I encourage all owners to revoke your credit card authorization, stop sending checks or close your account. Just stop funding the effort of the very people who are screwing us.

Bob Biello

hi laurah136,

where did you get your information about legally refusing to accept something (in this case the week {s} owned at TMC) as an heir willed this property? this information will assist many of us owners who need to deal with this issue.

chris

laurah136 wrote:

You can legally refuse a timeshare that you've inherited if you do it within 9 mos. and don't ever use it.

hi, robertb1802,

bob, you present an eye-opener. if the NYSAG has gathered, and you have found, this mound of incriminating information about TMC, have you any idea why the case has met with so many roadblocks to an equitable settlement? perhaps a court referee should step in and demand expediency and speed in resolving this whole mess of a court case.

thanks for doing this thorough "homework" which could be of great benefit to all of us TMC owners. perhaps this information can be channeled to a court overseer (referee) who will influence a more expedient settlement of this court case, both on the parts of the attorneys and the judge.

i have been a victim of the same fraud and issues that you have. i have done some homework as well and found that, overall, no other timeshare in the united states charges more than $1,200 per week in maintenance fees. TMC'S weekly fees for various accommodations approaches the $3,000 per week mark. UNSCRUPULOUS as you say. is there no regulation concerning this matter?..... a rhetorical queston as we owners all know. where does the court fit into this fraudulent scheme?

anyway, pls keep in touch.

chris

robertb1802 wrote:

Frustrated over our inability to ever get a room at our timeshare, I started googling a couple of years ago to see if there were other owners as frustrated as I was. I really got an education when I found the RedWeek.com site, and reviewed all the pages of postings on their “Manhattan Club Lawsuit” link. There are literally thousands of owners who feel as cheated as I do, who have posted complaints. I've been following the RedWeek site since then, and the majority of owners have the same complaint; for years, despite paying our fees, we have been routinely cheated out of the use of our timeshare while the Eichner family and a small circle of TMC insiders have enriched themselves at our expense. The icing on the cake for me and my wife, and what finally convinced us to stop paying TMC, was when we read the NY Attorney General's July, 2015 court filing, which itemizes a remarkable list of allegations of civil and criminal conduct on the part of The Manhattan Club. This includes the charge that for years, Eichner has been personally skimming 4-6 million dollars a year from TMC through a shell management company that had no employees and provided no services what so ever to the operation of the timeshare property. In reading through the filing, I got sick as I learned how badly we have been cheated and how unscrupulous and devious the principals at TMC were as they perpetrated their fraud against us; in our case, for over 10 years. They denied us the rooms we were entitled to while renting those same rooms to the general public via the Internet. The enormity of the fraud and the magnitude of the numbers is staggering... at least 14,000 owners, 250 rooms, 52 weeks a year ( in some cases they actually sold more than 52 weeks a year per unit!) at $2500-$4000 annual maintenance payments each. If you haven't already read this court filing, it is a MUST read for any Manhattan Club owner. Here is the link to that 2015 AG court filing: You may have to paste it into your browser. You’ll be astounded at the mountain of evidence the AG has collected during his investigation of TMC. Reading it convinced us we had been defrauded, our contract broken, and would no longer honor it ourselves.

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=arMAhc2Z8epneiTXUbb_PLUS_yQ==&system=prod

By simply withholding the last two years' maintenance payments for 2 units, and mortgage payment for one, I'm more than $10,000 ahead. Knowing what we now know, I'm amazed that anyone would voluntarily continue to send these crooks money. I encourage all owners to revoke your credit card authorization, stop sending checks or close your account. Just stop funding the effort of the very people who are screwing us.

Bob Biello