Marriott Going to Point Syst

I had finally decided to give to new system a try (despite the terribly cheap sales presentation we to had in Aruba this Nov.). I own 9 weeks & figured that I would save by paying the 199$ yearly fee since I often lock-off & exchange via II. So I called Marriott to join & explained that I don't want to convert my 2011 weeks to points this year but simply want to exchange my 1bdr with kitchen Oceanside (Aruba July) for a 2bdr or 3 bdr in Orlando week 50 (low season). I was told that with this new systems I could no longer upgrade... Basically I could only get a 1 bdr in Orlando. I was also told that upgrades even at the last minute were not possible. I guess some would call it fair trade but if you look at the dollar value, I feel that a 1bdr Gold Oceanside (better than Oceanview) is a fair trade for a 2bdr or 3bdr Orlando. Many times in the passed I have gotten bonus weeks with II for depositing my units on top of the upgrades. These were all deciding factors for me to stay with II. So I hung up. Called II paid the exchange fee & got a 3bdr at the Grande Vista.

Maybe one day we will have no choice to join if the majority has joined because at that point II will have nearly no Marriott's availability. I suspect that eventually Marriott's plan is to withdraw totally from II. But until then I will stick with II. Also I was afraid of having points left over but not enough to secure a full week as we don't live anywhere near any Marriott's Vacation club (so mini vacations are of no interest to us).

**To Rick1217: The reason you can still find lots of good trades with II FOR NOW is because THOSE OWNERS have NOT converted to points or if they did they still decided to use II because of either their banked weeks or because of the upgrades.

Dear all, I am not a huge fan of the points' system, mainly because Marriott can change the rules of the game in the coming years in the points' value (vs. strict one week deeds), but it provides excellent flexibility depending on your situation.

We joined to gain flexibility in being able to stay more or less than one "strict" week. Also, I did it because I bought my weeks all Platinum and at very low resale prices. Having said this, I really understand the loyal Marriott customers holding Gold/Silver (paid full) that are now angry.

As mentionned in an earlier message, I was able to extend my ski vacation for a couple of days (in addition to my deeded week). Yesterday, I also booked President's week-end at a great beach location in Florida, as my wife does not want to go to Orlando again. I had to convert/elect for points (7 nights deeded week) to be able to book 4 nights at the beach location. Note that I was able to convert my 2011 week! It seems that Marriott is getting more pragmatic on the dates for converting/using points (I am sure that going forward they will have to make some minor adjustments/changes to that).

We all agree that my last trade is not the best deal, but at the end of the day my family is happy in general (because we paid low resale price to start with and we will anyway not have 7 days vacations!) so the overall deal is OK for us.

I frankly can understand the angry "loyal long-term Marriott" customers (paid full price Gold/Silver weeks) that were using II to have great deals. With the new points system, Marriott just took it from them and seriously reduced the value of their properties. If you are not usually staying at your own resort (i.e. exchanging your deed week), only excellent Platinum weeks will make it over the long run in this new system.

Well, BULLY FOR YOU, davidn247. I think the only reason you made an appearance here is to brag about how you became a Marriott owner. Who gives a flying ****? You got into the system and Marriott loves people like you. They'll continue to take your money as they did the "direct buy" owners. The key word here is "take" because they're in it only for the money and obviously don't care if they skim from loyal customers or provide worthwhile services. Rather than live up to the words they gushed to entice people to buy they do just the opposite and do many a disservice under the guise of this lousy program. You bought into it so you're not as smart as you think you are and I'm not impressed with your reasoning. Ignorance is bliss as they say. Have a great 2011 everyone.

dennisn36 wrote:

Well, BULLY FOR YOU, davidn247. I think the only reason you made an appearance here is to brag about how you became a Marriott owner. Who gives a flying ****? You got into the system and Marriott loves people like you. They'll continue to take your money as they did the "direct buy" owners. The key word here is "take" because they're in it only for the money and obviously don't care if they skim from loyal customers or provide worthwhile services. Rather than live up to the words they gushed to entice people to buy they do just the opposite and do many a disservice under the guise of this lousy program. You bought into it so you're not as smart as you think you are and I'm not impressed with your reasoning. Ignorance is bliss as they say. Have a great 2011 everyone.

Wow, dennisn36, did you have a few too many before you wrote your rude response last night - a couple hours after the new year? I like the discussion on this board and have learned a lot, but have also gotten tired of the anger and rudeness expressed by some, such as you dennisn. PLEASE, let's keep this discussion going with facts and information that will be helpful, not sarcasm, rudeness, or anger.

Oh, and by the way, I happen to agree with davidn257 (and have no clue who the guy is) and I'm one of those "ignorant" ones in your book. At first, after reading these blogs, I was 100% against purchasing and was quite angry at Marriott, and as of two weeks ago, we paid the fees and joined Destinations. While I agree there are parts of it that I don't like, we figured if someone had offered us the ability to trade our resale weeks in for Rewards points (one week at Maui Marriott and one week at Kauai Marriott) for an extra $1300 TOTAL for both (plus the $600 for our "direct buy" Marriott), we would have JUMPED at the chance when we purchased. The ONLY thing that made our first Marriott purchase (Grand Ocean on Hilton Head) different from the others is that we could trade for Reward Points when we wanted to do so, and we have owned for SIXTEEN years, so we know how to use the program very well. I have argued with Marriott sales people for years that it did not make sense for me to spend an extra $10-20,000 per unit to buy it from Marriott instead of the resale market just to be able to trade for Rewards Points. Now I have the best of both worlds - We saved a ton on our initial purchase and can now trade our resale weeks (Marriott weeks not bought through Marriott) for points when we can't use them for some reason. It's easier than trying to rent them.

I've already booked my 800 "freebie" points for an extra night in Kaui and two extra nights in Florida over spring break, which took our airfare way down because we will fly home on a Tuesday instead of a Sunday.

As I said, there are definitely parts I don't like, as there was when Marriott revalued the Rewards Points a few years back, but it came down to being a decision that I thought was best for us. As I said, our entire reasoning was that we are now able to trade for points if we want (we have used them for one extra night in DC to an entire trip to Australia). I don't think this is for everyone, but being 55, I know that at some point in the years ahead, the trip to Hawaii from the midwest may not be too far for my bad back and this gives us more options.

Hopefully, we can continue an intelligent, professional, and polite conversation in which we can each learn if this program is for us or not. I think it is a different answer for everybody, depending on the individual circumstances.

Okay, here's our situation. We own at Canyon Villas (Gold EOY). We bought about 5 years ago without any knowledge of timeshare. We visit AZ every 3-4 years or so (family) so we thought it would be a good investment as we were in our mid 20's when we purchased. We've since had kids and have actually never used our week at our home resort. We've traded for Palm Springs, Hawaii and of course Orlando (kids). We've been huge fans of MVC and II and have referred 3 other couples (who also purchased).

Then the point system hits. We had a horrible experience with our sales lady who tried to get us to enroll. She was energetic and friendly until we said know. They she became disrespectful and basically kicked us out of their office, but that's not why I'm posting.

We haven't enrolled into the points system yet because our EOY Gold Week at Canyon Villas is worth peanuts. Granted, I know that it's trade value in the normal system isn't as high as other more popular resort, but I was always able to trade for something very satisfactory.

Our potential point value in the new system is very weak (I can't remember what it is, but I think it would take at least 3 years of banking to get a decent week somewhere else).

Anyway, what should we do? I think we spent $9,000 upfront and pay about $450 per year in maintenance. I've never once regretted this purchase until now. I'd love to sell my timeshare to get out completely and then just buy weeks from sites like this.

What are the best options for me to sell my timeshare? Or, should we just enter into their point program and buy more points (I really really don't want to give Marriott anymore money). Or, should we just stay in II and try to trade for non-Marriott resorts.

I'm willing to give it another shot, but at this point we do feel a bit betrayed because had we known the point system was coming we would not have purchased an EOY Gold at Canyon Villas :)

We purchased the same as you did and we were able to trade thu II for Mariott properties in Orlando. I spoke to an II representable & would encourage you to call and talk directly to them about what the advantages of staying will II are. You already have the info from a Marriott rep. We have received upgrades and free weeks. No such things with Marriott in the points system. Also, don't forget you can trade your week every other year for Marriott points whyich we have used in the Hotel chain.

Hi BS139, I would definitely recommend NOT enrolling in the new points program and NOT buying additional points. (You simply do not have enough points from your existing property to justify this.) Therefore, i would recommend you trying to see if you can trade through Interval International, as in the past. While most of us feel this option will eventually dry up (as owners convert to the points program), it may still be a viable strategy in the near term. Plus, there are many gold star non-Marriott properties that may be good trades.

Longer term, you might want to consider selling your unit on Redweek.com. Some people feel that legacy (i.e., deeded) owner weeks will be in demand in the future. Or, if there is a destination resort that you are likely to frequent in the future, you may take advantage of the very low resale prices that currently exist, and buy another week (assuming, of course, the maintenance fees justify your usage of the resort). Otherwise, you could just use Redweek.com and rent.

Thanks Guys. Good advice. At some point when Marriott weeks dry up in II wouldn't mine be more valuable to others for trade within II? We prefer Marriott properties, but have nice luck with other Gold II properties?

I'm just hoping that Marriott doesn't force our hand in a couple more years (to switch to points). Thanks again.

Thank you (and happy year!) for the ones that provides constructive discussions in this forum. In the past months, we shared interesting comments/thoughts on the new point system (i.e. from ermanc, rick1227, etc.) and I personnally learnt a lot. I hope that we continue in that spirit in order to keep it alive.

BS139: I would agree with thomasn15. If you only have one week (EOY), it is not worth spending more money to join this new program. Also, buying new points at Marriott is not the solution because there are very expensive and the annual maintenance costs are approx. 40 cents on the dollar (if I am not wrong). It seems that the best way to go forward (for you) is II and redweek (simply renting out or even selling your week).

Another contributor to this forum (cannot find his post now, but was a long-term Marriott owner that sold all his weeks) came to the conclusion that renting through redweek will be the "best value for money" going forward. It is true that, if exchange through interval are going to be more difficult (less inventory/volume) and Marriott will "devaluate" the points value over time, redweek renting should become more popular in the future.

I guess that it is safe to say that many of us who gamed the system over the years might be aggravated by the new system. Yes, all of us who took gold and bronze or silver weeks and traded them for platinum over the years. I dont remember anywhere in the plan when Marriott promised to give away all of this to us. I have never viewed it this way personally. I felt fortunate to get many of the trades that we have received over the years, all from trading bronze for platinum and occasionally Silver. Shucks, I also did not pay much for my bronze week.

We also can lay it out there and the whiners can quit talking about it. Marriott is a FOR PROFIT company, PERIOD. They make money. They are allowed to. No one has ever been forced at gunpoint to buy from them. So get over the "they make money thing". Of course they make money. You certainly can argue that it is expensive to purchase, and indeed it is not cheap, but the focus is wrong simply complaining about the money they make. Buy in the after market then.. it's legal too.

Just want to provide a bit more factual information regarding a post that occurred on the 30th of December. All of these comments are specific to my situation at Grande Ocean, an owner of 1 Platinum and 1 Bronze.

1. The point system value. I receive 93% in current points for my Platinum week. 4200 Points, 4500 to occupy with points. If it was strictly a 6 nights for 7 that was suggested that would be 86%. Now I wouldnt convert to points to occupy at my home resort, dont have to. BUT, I now COULD go twice for 5 days Sun thru thurs, and still only use 4000 of my 4200 points. And upgrade to oceanfront at that. Hmm, flexibilty.... My Bronze week, btw, is worth 1100 points, but only takes 825 to stay the same period. Hmm, 133% or more than 9 days for 7. Or if I want to convert both weeks to points, and use those points to stay for 7 days at my normal time periods, I would only be 25 points short. Not much... So what I got for my weeks is 99.5% of what it takes to occupy. If I dont use the points, of course I will bank them for next year. Maybe to get an extra day or two, or do consider a cruise, or maybe one of the explorer trips, Hmm, flexibility.

2. "If you prefer to go to your home resort, you'll find it harder". Sorry, that is not exactly on spot. There are two types of inventory in the new system, Inventory that previously is unsold weeks, owned by the MVC Trust and inventory from the Destination Exchange program. Each resort is clearly marked online and in the plan books as to T or E or both. At my resort Grande Ocean, we are an E. Basically a sold out resort. There are no units to be sold by Marriott for the first time, only resales. For anyone to reserve a week at my resort, someone like me has to first trade my usage week for points. Period, end of story. Fact. On those resorts that are designated with a T, then Marriott still owns a signifcant portion of the inventory and can put weeks into the points pool to satisfy the demands of points owners requests. I suspect that this is where the"I think Marriott can give away 50% of the rooms to point users" claim came from. I have found no documentation that mentions a specific percentage. (update, Found it the 50% refers to the maximum amount of "available" inventory that can be requested 13 months in advance by the Premier, or Premier Plus points owners.

3. Yearly fee. $199. Yes that is more than the annual fee for Interval if you do not do anything but occupy. Ok so what. It is what it is. If you do trade for points, or MR points, or exchanges, then you are done. No more fee for this, fee for that. So it's $100 more than before. If you own less than 6500 points, the fee is $165.

4. I let this one ride as is. Generally, it is a fair statement.

5. Excellent trades are over. Perhaps, but then if you own Silver or Gold you should trade for Silver or Gold. We all bragged too much about the great trades, and too many of us rented our weeks also, and too many of us bought in the after market for resales. Those are all ok though, right? It is all relative. We were never promised or guaranteed great trades.

6. Maintenance Fees on points purchases. Yes of course there is. It is currently .40 Cents per point. So, at first I thought that was high, so I compared it to my existing maintenace fees. Currently around $1100 for both the Platinum and Bronze weeks each. That works out to a little over .40 cents per point. (based on the point value in the new system) But the only was to pay for maintenance in the new system at those resorts being sold as points only is to pay per point, not per week. So if I was to buy my Bronze week's value, i.e. 1100, my maintenance fee would only be $440 not $1100. Now my Platinum week, 4200 points, would be $1680. More than the $1100 I pay today. So what? Incentive to buy the lesser demanded point values. Dont know? Fair for the Platinum users to pay more of their fair share? Perhaps? The jury is out on that, but .40 cents per point is comparable with what exists today, so it is not really fair to simply say " I hear the fee is high". Compared to what?

Time will certainly tell whether we get more benefit versus feeling being squeezed in the system. But it will evolve based on the success of it's acceptance by us, the owners...

UPDATED NOTE; The MVCI owners web site now has a significant amount of information answering a lot of the questions that have been raised on this blog. From the home page of the owner login, Go to the very bottom and click on FAQ. It has tabs then for Points Owners, Enrolled Owners and just plain old Weeks Owners. Much of all the hype on this blog is explained in quite a bit of detail from questions compiled from folks like us.

Oh, I forgot one thing. I dont think anyone has mentioned that points can be transferred to any other owner. Will this ultimately lead to point sales between owners for unused points in any given year? If so, I am looking for 100 points to get enough to get my 4th childs honeymoon at St. Kitts. for this coming September. I've got my Interval exchange request in, but I am trying to trade up from Bronze to Silver, so I want to be prepared if the trades really dry up like they are supposed to.....

Rick1227,

Here is my response to your comments about us "gaming the system" and that the days of "excellent trades are over" (see your quotes below)

"I guess that it is safe to say that many of us who gamed the system over the years might be aggravated by the new system. Yes, all of us who took gold and bronze or silver weeks and traded them for platinum over the years. I dont remember anywhere in the plan when Marriott promised to give away all of this to us.

5. Excellent trades are over. Perhaps, but then if you own Silver or Gold you should trade for Silver or Gold. We all bragged too much about the great trades, and too many of us rented our weeks also, and too many of us bought in the after market for resales. Those are all ok though, right? It is all relative. We were never promised or guaranteed great trades."

I think anyone who sat through a MVC presentation and bought a timeshare from Marriott in the past will tell you that one of the main Marriott sales person pitches was how great of trades you could pull off in the Interval system and how valuable even Bronze/Silver weeks were from Marriott. In fact, I remember both Stan and Herb (the two sales guys that we dealt with) both showed us some potential "excellent trades" using their logins on the Interval site with their Marriott weeks. Both of those guys also bragged about "excellent trades" that they had made over the years. This was the main point they stressed about owning a MVC week. I would bet my house that this was part of MVC's corporate sales training program.

So for you to act like we have been cheating the system or getting away with murder in the past and that we should be grateful about the time we had even though it's over now is a ridiculous assessment. One of the reasons I bought into this mess is because I looked forward to trading my Marriott week for better weeks or even multiple weeks. I think our anger over "Excellent trades being over" is pretty justified. One of the reasons I was so happy with my Marriott investment was the fact that I had gotten quite a few "excellent trades". In fact, when I talked to friends and family about the Marriott Vacation Club (and got three of them to buy) that's what I pitched to them. Now I'm angry because the game was changed without our input and we (owners) are the ones losing something (what are we gaining with the new program, and don't say "flexibility").

I have no problem with Marriott making money, but the way they are doing it is ridiculous. They are sucking more money from their loyal customers who are stuck with them. If there was an easy way for us pissed off customers to get out of owning our MVC weeks for anywhere close to what we paid for them I bet you'd see folks jumping off the ship left and right. The fact of the matter is that we can't so we are stuck with them and they know it and fully took advantage of the situation with their new program. Marriott "had" one of the best reputations and loyal customer bases that I'd ever seen in the industry which is another reason that we bought a MVC week. I think they have severely hurt their image and reputation buy trying to make more "profits" off of this group.

I can appreciate you trying to stay positive, but I have to disagree with your logic. I know that Marriott employees are members on these boards and pretend to be owners that spin things in a positive light. I can't help but suspect you are one of them based on your comments above.

I think I was the long-term owner (20 years) who sold all (4) Marriott weeks to rely upon Red Week. I concur with all of the recent posts (rick1227 thomasn15 davidn247) - well said. It (trading gold/bronze/silver) for platinum was great while it lasted. Marriott is not only interested in generating revenue, they are leveling the playing field such that the bargain trading of the past is no more. I never really understood why it worked so well, but it did. Hotel reward points were seriously devalued 2-3 years ago (instead of 270K reward points, you needed 360K reward points for 7 nights at the best Marriotts and 120K airline miles) - 33% loss of value. Can't say what the future holds for destination points, but Red Week looks good. Nothing up front, no maintenance, and shop for the precise dates and locations you want. I like it.

I have been reading plenty of posts to convince me that going to points is not a good idea. I will try not to ramble on. I have a red week and as long as I keep paying the maintence fees I will still have the same week in say 2020. If I change to points, besides all the fluff up front, is there any guarantee as to how many points Marriott can charge per night in say 2020. So, is the lower points from Sunday through Thursday just a teaser rate, to get you locked in, and then they increase them at their will?

Please tell me if I am missing something here.

Remember it's your option whether you convert to points for a particular "Use Year" or not. It's not permanent.

You can always just use your home resort week as before.

BS 139, I tried to send a response and the server lost it, I am not going to rewrite it again. I still dont work for Marriott.

Good luck to everyone. FAQ's are on the MVCI owners web site that answer a lot of the questions posed here. I am sure that some of you will think they are lying but, oh well.

rick1227 wrote:

BS 139, I tried to send a response and the server lost it, I am not going to rewrite it again. I still dont work for Marriott.

Good luck to everyone. FAQ's are on the MVCI owners web site that answer a lot of the questions posed here. I am sure that some of you will think they are lying but, oh well.

It's ok Bill. Thanks for the heads up on the FAQs.

robertw312: it is your own choice but paying the upfront fee (and the $165 every year, I suspect) for joining the points' system could be very expensive for only one week ownership (especially EOY).

bs139: Regarding your post, my only comment is that in business you can only believe what is writting. The rest does not mean anything. Marriott salesmen are not different than the real estate guys (or even the car dealers). When you buy a house, I have always to check that everything is in writting. Right?

Small story: Last February, I was in Orlando and Marriott tried to sell to my wife the new LakeShore timeshare. I have to admit that it is fantastic (luxury, golf course, etc) and the near presence of JW Marriott and Ritz-Carlton is a plus for the services/spa/etc.... Now listen to this: the sales"lady" was telling me that the tennis is part of the timeshare complex, that owners can stay at the JW Marriott pool, etc, etc., etc.... owners have preference for the golf course (it is really a top course! this is true), etc.. etc.

First, I was not ready to buy because paying the Marriott price is like buying a new car: you normally lose 40% as you walk out of the door with it! But as my wife felt in love with it (like for her AUDI...), I took the time to review the documentation in ALL the details. After reading EVERYTHING (propectus, full 100 articles/book, reviewing timeshare map/plans, phases to be constructed, maintenance fees and possible increase, etc.), I realised that the tennis court is part of the JW property (not the timeshare portion) and that both the JW pool and the tennis usage is provided to the timeshare owners at the discretion of the JW Marriott. No mention of golf course anywhere in the official documentation, etc.

The sales"lady" was not even aware of all this.... she learnt it with me as she NEVER EVER took the time to go through the details of it. She had to call the manager and then the manager of the manager and finally all the experts in the house to answer my questions (example: What if Marriott do a spin-off of its timeshare business and merge it with another operators? How can we make sure about the amenities that you are selling us (tennis, JW pool, etc.)?). No real answer.

This is maybe my CFO mentality, but I never sign a document under the emotion. If things are not in writting ("black on white"), it means that they are just words (with no commitment and everything can change).

We finally bought a second week at our Grande Vista (at resale, meaning 3 times less the Lakeshare price!) and I promised my wife that I will try to exchange it from time to time for a 2Br at Lakeshore. Let's see now...

Like everything in life, it is just a question of choices. Once you made your decision, you also have to live with the "dark side" of it. If you are not sure or want to better understand, simply take your time. A salesman will always try to pressure you to close immediatly. At the end of the day, it is their job. Up to you to keep them honest!

davidn247 What's your point?

I for one never said that Marriott did anything illegal. Also, everything that the sales reps told us about making excellent exchanges has been more than true. I don't feel like the sales reps lied to us at all. However, most of their selling points are no longer selling points in the new program.

It's simple. The MVC program that we bought into 5 years ago and have really really enjoyed is now over. Most of the reasons we purchased are now gone or changed. We simply feel betrayed by Marriott.

Marriott is fully allowed to do this and it has been their choice to do so. When a company I do business with does something that I don't like, I usually won't do business with them anymore. Unfortunately with Marriott it's not that easy because I still own an EOY week at Canyon Villas that I paid $9,000 for.

I simply wish we would not have bought into their program 5 years ago. There is not much I can do about it now. I'm forced to NOT join their new program and stay with II (because an EOY option in the new program makes no sense). Hopefully we can still trade our Marriott week for other nice non-Marriott weeks. When the time is right I'm going to sell our MVC week and wash my hands with this mess. In the meantime, I'm drawing Hitler mustaches on all the Bill Marriott paintings that I see (just kidding Bill).