Marriott Going to Point Syst

Just yesterday I had a conversation with a person who is supposedly a Marriott "insider". He indicated to me (not surprisingly) that the new points program has been a total disaster. Not only has the number of owner's signing up for the program fallen well behind Marriott's expectations, but (again not surprisingly) those owners who have signed up are not giving up their weeks for points. So, in summary, the entire program is disfunctional. In addition, the owner response has been overwhelmingly negative toward the new program, to the point that morale is at an all time low among Marriott Vacation Club employees, and Marriott's image has suffered unbelievable damage.

While this person did not offer any suggestions about if or when Marriott might try to rectify the situation, I heard an unqualified rumor elsewhere that Marriott may try to buy up the units of high value properties (such as Hawaii) from owners who have "not" enrolled in the points program. Supposedly this would be Marriott's attempt to create some inventory for points trades.

Has anyone else heard anything about this rumor?

Well, I guess the matter of whether my statement is true or not is a matter of opinion. My point is that Marriott should not be "skimming" by giving owners one value for a certain TS unit/week and charging us a higher value to exchange into another TS unit/week and the "desparity" (which you admit exists) tells us that is exactly what they are doing. As a long time, multiple week owner, I will not participate in this program, set up as it is, either. It is still an issue for me, however, because I am tired of corporate greed in general and Marriott's attempt in particular, to fleece it's owners in such a sleazy manner. We've paid our price of admission and for them to charge us extra because we want to "change seats in the theater" is reprehensible. I doubt owners will opt for points only to trade back into their home resort but I suppose it could happen. To insist one pay an additional fee for that occurance should be beneath them. I do have choices, as you put it, and my choice is to stand up for all Marriott owners when I see a lack of fairness so brazen - even if it is a non-issue to you. And by the way, the first I heard of this program was earlier this week when I received a call from Marriott representatives and I have yet to be officially informed of any details of it.

dennisn36

I think we are essentially in agreement. Corporate greed is bad whether practiced by Marriott or Wall Street. You say you will not participate in the points program and neither will I. If enough owners take our position there will not be inventory for the points program to operate. I applaud your decision to "stand up for all Marriott owners" because of Marriott's "lack of fairness so brazen" I wish you well with your protest.

Amen to your message, dennisn36 ! We have bragged about Marriott for years, but no longer. We are extremely disappointed in the new points system and even though we are multiple week Marriott owners, we will NOT be buying into the points system. I would like to encourage others to stand up to Marriott, as well. We have a choice and we are choosing the route that make the most economical sense!

I received this email yesterday. To me it looks like it supports the opinion that Marriott is having a difficult time with this point system. However, look at the black out dates. They are over Thanksgiving. That is the time when 99% of people are going to be able to use them anyway.

I thought I would share this email in case someone has not seen it.

"To ensure delivery of your Marriott Vacation Club Owner Services emails, add marriottownerservices@vacationclub.com to your personal address book. Replies to this email are not monitored.

Special Offer for Marriott Vacation Club® Points Owners: From November 1st until December 15th Save 50% off the Vacation Club Points needed when you stay 3 nights or more at participating Marriott Vacation Club Collection* resorts! But hurry! You must complete your travel before December 15th.

To take advantage of this limited-time Vacation Club Points offer, call your Vacation Ownership Advisor team. 888-MVCI-VOA (888-682-4862)

Black-out dates apply - Offer not valid for overnight stays on these dates: November 24th through and including November 27th

Participating Resorts Marriott's Fairway Villas Galloway, New Jersey Marriott's Crystal Shores Marco Island, Florida Marriott's Monarch Hilton Head Island, South Carolina Marriott's Ocean Pointe Palm Beach Shores, Florida Marriott's Oceana Palms Riviera Beach, Florida Marriott's Sabal Palms Orlando, Florida Marriott's Royal Palms Orlando, Florida Owners must be current on maintenance fees and club dues to participate in this offer. Holding points can not be used with this offer. Vacation Club Points owners who have purchased points must have a closed contract in order to make a reservation using those points. Offer is subject to availability. Travel must be completed by December 15, 2010. Offer is subject to change and may be discontinued at any time without notice.

*The Marriott Vacation Club Collection is comprised of timeshare interests owned by the MVC Trust and available for usage through the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations™ timeshare plan and timeshare interests available for usage through the MVC Exchange Company; please see the applicable Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program documents for more information.

Resorts with property that comprise the MVC Trust are described in the documents provided at the time of sale, and more particularly on the exhibit entitled Component Site Chart, which may be revised from time to time.

Request for occupancy at resorts with small amounts of property in the MVC Trust, as set forth in the Component Site Chart, will be fulfilled primarily through the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program.

As of 6/20/2010, there are currently timeshare interests located at 11 resorts owned by the MVC Trust and those resorts are designated with the symbol E.

As of 6/20/2010, there are currently 53 resorts, including the aforementioned 11 resorts, with timeshare interests available for exchange through the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program, and those resorts are designated with the symbol T.

Marriott's Fairway Villas E, Marriott's Crystal Shores E, Marriott's Monarch E, Marriott's Ocean Pointe ET, Marriott's Oceana Palms ET, Marriott's Sabal Palms E, Marriott's Royal Palms E.

Please see the applicable Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program documents for more information.

Internet Privacy Statement MDC-10-147"

Greetings all,

It seems the subject of MVCI "skimming" seems to frequently blossom as the major issue with the Destination Exchange Program. I am a multiple Marriott weeks owner and owner of dozens of other timeshares and Marriott has generally taken the same approach that others have in implementing their version of a flexible points exchanges system. Marriott has actually taken the high road by leaving all existing MVCI options for use and exhange available to existing owners. Note: Other companies have for the most part eliminated other options for their properties that moved to points. I've spent direct face-to-face discussion time with the master sales staff of serveral Marriott properties since 20 June to "understand" the points disparity.

The bottom-line is that in order for Marriott Destinations Exchange program to work it must recognize the reality that by allowing points exchanges to range from 1 day to as many days as your points can buy, there will be days lost as may will book weekends at the expense of days during mid-week. In the industry this is called "breakage" it is a lost day to Marriott that in a week-to-week exchange does not occur since all exchanges are for seven days for a seven day exchange. Look back at your vacations and you'll likely remember that in many cases your schedules did not allow you to use all seven days of your weeks vacation. Many of us are forced to "lose" one or more days to fit our travel and personal/work schedules. Marriott must account for this in their points system. You may use your points received to book three different weekends at three locations for a total of six days. Six vs seven may seem like you've been shortchanged, but look at the flexibility you have received and consider the loss of weekdays Marriott not be able to rent.

I know this seems complicated, but it really is very simple. I suggest that if you want a seven day vacation for your seven day timeshare then do in internal Marriott or II weeks exchange. You'll be happy and Points process will never impact you. If you should want some travel flexibility (number of days, locations, etc) then that year consider the Destinations option. You get the best of both worlds.

Enjoy your vacations!

Erman C.

Bravo for someone (Ermanc) actually putting something intelligent out there. I was one of the early sales presentations to the new program (in June 2010) and thought it looked pretty good. I enrolled, feeling that just as Ermanc said, all my existing options were still there, and the new points exchange and other travel options were now new features for me to explore and use. We have stayed at our home resort on Hilton Head during summer season for 13 years now, but have a unique situation in 2011. A family reunion in Atlanta is coming up and we were probably going to lose a few days on Hilton Head to keep our time to 7 to 8 days total. Along comes the point program to the rescue. We have already been confirmed for a 5 day points exchange at the Myrtle Beach Marriott resort (our first choice) and have a pending request for a second villa for 5 days. This will be perfect for us in 2011. 2-5 day platinum villas for about the same as my point value of my unit on Hilton Head. I sacrificed Friday and Saturday, which we need for the reunion. So for all the speculators of what reality is and is'nt in this program, I have already been successful and got mine for 2011. In 2012 I will probably simply reserve my summer week at Grande Ocean and not trade my summer for points, or I may simply use Interval and trade for an exchange, like we have with our Bronze week, key word Bronze for Maui twice, Aruba once, Extra units on Hilton Head twice, all Marriott and Indiana once and Williamsburg once both Interval units, or maybe we will take regular Marriott points for our Bronze week which we have done a few times over the years just to manage our banked weeks and not have too many. And yes I also may simply rent and additional unit on Red Week from another Marriott owner, which we have done in the past also. So I will continue for years to come to enjoy Marriott's "corporate greed" as someone suggested this is. I will also continue to use all the Marriott points they have given me as incentives for purchase and attending sales presentations, will occasionally enjoy the low cost greedy getaways they offer me ( I think it was 200 or 300 for 4 days at Canyon Villas in Scottsdale) which allowed us to also stay and visit the Grand Canyon, Sedona and the rest up north of Phoenix for a few days also during our week there. Oh, and the point specials that just came out at certain resorts, I didnt view this as a failure of the program, but simply marketing of the available inventory that is currently available to move it. Looks like some good deals if you can go soon.

No, I do not work for Marriott, but I want them to continue being successful and profitable so that they continue to provide me with everything they have promised me since I became an owner.

Rick1227

Nicely stated and I can say I echo your positive experiences over the 25 years my wife and I have been happy Marriott owners (since 1985). I too don't work for Marriott, but strive to help them stay the best in the business so I can travel with the best in the industry. I keep an open dialogue with many in the company who have always been open to constructive feedback. They do listen which is why they are tops in the business. So if you have good ideas share them with the company and others. It is the time of year for owner board meetings so start there at you home resorts. The board members have frequent contact with the company management.

Cheers,

EC

25% of the people in the U.S. also wanted Universal Health Care, and those 25% are probably bragging about it, but what about the 75% who didn't want it? It's great that ermanc and rick1227 are happy with the new points system, but please don't tell me that Marriott listens to the owners, as they wouldn't have gone to this system, if so. About 75 % of the owners have rejected the new program. Next thing I'll hear you both saying is that Obama is also listening.....Please don't misunderstand - I really am happy it is working for you, but don't assume that most of us have lost a day here or there (we have NEVER and we have owned for 16 years - multiple Marriotts) and please don't assume that Marriott is listening to the owners just because you like the program....and please don't assume....the list goes on and on.

Sorry to hear you and others are so unhappy with Marriott and your ownership. To be factual MVCI has done nothing at all to change what you own and how you choose to use it. On the other-hand they are a business that must thrive or move on and if you haven't noticed most of the timeshare industry has been turned into a disaster by the poor economy which as eliminated most sales and left developers like MVCI with large numbers of forclosures due to owners who have walked away from their loans/payments. Marriott must also shoulder all the maintenance fees and taxes for those properties that they now "own" and cannot sell. Their only source of alternative revenue for those properties has been rentals thru their Marriott hotel/resort system. Most other developers who are not major hotel companies have sold out thru bankruptcy or buyouts and left the remaining "owners" shouldering all the maintenance fees, taxes, and repairs needed for the entire property. MVCI new system was crafted to enhance their product line in the hopes of improving new unit sales and to allow them to continue developing future properties around the nation/world. Note: The past five years they closed all but three or four sales locations and curtailed most ongoing developement other than Hawaii and stopped all new starts they had on the books. They offered the points system to existing weeks owners as an OPTION and as bridge to tehir new business approach which you and others clearly will reject.

I for one will seriously consider this option for occassionally use and will more often continue to use all my Marriotts and other properties as I have in the past. From my vieve I get the best of both worlds. My bottom-line is that I want Marriott to succeed and prosper so I can enjoy top quality vacations in an expanding list of great locations. The alternative is for Marriott to cease all future development and leave the timeshare business due to lack of sales of standard weeks and pass all the abandoned properties to the resort ownership associations (that would be us) to shoulder all costs. In this case you can be guaranteed decaying properties and double/triple the fees you see today. Just look at the properties of those companies that have not survived. BTW: Marriott will still manage our properties but only to the level we as owners will pay.

So you choose your option and I'll choose mine, but for now lets all be informed about what we are talking about and not assume we know something we do not.

Cheers!

EC

ermanc wrote:

... but it really is very simple. I suggest that if you want a seven day vacation for your seven day timeshare then do in internal Marriott or II weeks exchange.

Erman C.

This is an interesting thought, and it would be useful if it were true. The reality is that the trades of the past 20 years are not there for the next 20 years (or last 5, next 5; or...). Simply look at what is available on II (which provided the only way to do an internal Marriott exchange in years gone by). So, you can choose to ignore points and pretend to have the 'old system' at your disposal, but the old system ain't what it used to be. As many others have already posted - the bargain trades that worked for 20 years are a thing of the past.

As long as there are people like Rick1227 and Ermanc I think Marriott is going to do quite nicely. I just hope, however, that they are in the minority when it comes to this program. While it may work right into their plans and, while I still think the concept is great, I still believe the program was "greedily" and hastily put together. I we, personally, "lose" a day here and there because of travel, work or other influences, that is OUR problem and OUR decision. If Marriott loses a day here and there because of this program, IT IS THEIR PROBLEM. It seems, according to these two generous Marriott owners, the difficulty lies in folks who want to book partial weeks or weekends only . That being the case then Marriott should have put the extra fees on those people booking time that way and NOT skimming owners who might exchange points in the normal, full week increments. A WEEK at a certain resort and color period with Marriott should be worth the same as any comaparable resort in the same color season. We've already paid the price of admission for that program. A modest enrollment fee and the annual participation fee should be sufficient enough for a FULL WEEK exchange. The "value added" aspect (or days lost) comes in partial week reservations and I would have no problem being charged extra for a per-day basis IF that was for MY convenience. Higher daily rates vrs a whole week at a time??? Wow, how simple.... let those that actually cause the waste PAY for it. Now there's a concept I could live with.

dennisn36

You have a great idea and one I've discussed with my Marriott contacts as well. They think it might have some merit but were concerned that seven day bookings not staying with the Fri/Sat/Sun check-in used by weeks so could still cause them to suffer "breakage". By sticking to the check-in standard it is virtually the same as a week to week exchange, but now the inventory available is both weeks and points. Good for everyone not trying to do non-standard bookings (more or less than 7 days).

So I propose that everyone who thinks this is a good idea (point value received for their seven day week should equal the same seven day reservations point value for those following Fri/Sat/Sun convention) consider sending this to Marriott Destination as an owner suggestion for future refinement of the program. Perhaps with enough owners passing this on as a condition for considering the program we might get some positive action.

Cheers!

EC

Bob2001

I truly feel your pain as we've all experienced the reduction over time of the availability of great internal Marriott trades. As you stated this did not just happen on 20 Jun 2010 when the points system was introduced. To my understanding the main reason for the change in experience occured because in the past the Marriott owned inventory (unsold) was available for internal booking/trade/use just like owner deposits. Note: Marriott was still on the hook for all their share of maintenance fees/taxes. To reduce their inventory operating costs they fully integrated MVCI resort properties into their Marriott Hotel reservation system and now are able to rent out more of their inventory with greater success. I book these frequently as an alternative to Marriott hotel rooms in an area with Marriott timeshares. Now the down-side to doing this type of rental is that Marriott must hold some of these units out of the MVCI available use/trade inventory since many renters don't book until a few months or weeks prior to travel. Marriott's un-rented units are those you see come back in the short-stay or last minute exchange listings at Interval.

Unfortunately for all, many of the past deals have indeed been reduced. I just don't think it is fair to attribute that to Marriott's Destination points system. I haven't done this, but it might be interesting to see what it costs to book MVCI's inventory one year out. Perhaps it is less than owner annual fees.

I wish you all the best in your vacation planning,

EC

You are without a doubt a Marriott employee and your contacts are your colleagues at Marriott.

Although you bring up some interesting points, I believe you may be a salesman.

Greetings,

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm not even close to a Marriott employee. I'm a US Air Force Retired officer (22yrs) and I continue to honorably serve the Department of Defense and our aviation heros as a civilian program manager/engineer helping develop the next generation of fighter aircraft for the Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps and our closest allies. In that role I get to spend from three to four months a year away from home and family. On those trips and the couple of weeks a year I manage to spend with my family on vacation I strive hard to frequent MVCI resorts and Marriott hotels. I can say I've never been disappointed in the nearly 30 years I've been doing this and I have had many a cup of coffee across the table from Marriott's most experienced staff. I'll be the first to say that I am a loyal customer and owner of Marriott properties as they are my "home-away from-home", but I can also assure you the time I spend chatting with them is for a purpose and intended to further my understanding of their products and services and when possible provide them my unfiltered feedback and criticism.

If it helps any, during my last trip to Orlando I elected to stay at the Marriot Lakeshore Reserve timeshare property (one of their only new developments in the past few years). While there I managed to get their sales manager and master salesperson to discuss the new system for an hour and a half after they were closed. They knew up-front I was not there to purchase yet they were all ears as I shared all the concerns I've read in this blog and others on TUG. They were polite and very interested in the feedback and promised to convey all feedback up their chain-of-command. They have a vested interest in the success of the MVCI enterprise as they are the handful of staff that remain and must make a living on the quality of their product. They noted that most of their sales are from referrals that come from satisfied owners so they do care about owner opinions provided with positive solutions in mind.

So with that said and since I seemed to have spoiled the angst and vinger theme that was developing on this blog, I'll go back to being a "silent" reader for a bit and do what I've always done over the years and keep providing constructive and honest feedback directly to the company and their staff.

I do honestly wish all the best for all of us as Marriott timeshare owners old and new and I hope that we each continue to enjoy vacationing in this terrific manner for many years to come.

v/r

Erman Cordova

@ erman c, the breakage explanation as to the justification why Marriott must skim points is just another creative twist of timeshare truth. Breakage affects the owners, not Marriott. Marriott gets paid the annual maint and the breakage days are paid for by owner maintenance. So owners gain gain flexibility at the expense of some breakage, plus under the new Marriott system owners lose about 10% more.

The argument of wherther it makes sense to provide existing owners less points then it takes to go to your home property rages on. Yes, owner mtce fees pays for the running of the timeshare. But when you trade in your week for points and go partial weeks, Marriott has to come up with a plan that will make sure space is available for that number of points. When deeded owners trade in their weeks for points, and then go less then a week, there will be days that are not signed up for. Thus, the need to provide less points for this flexiblility. For new owners this is not a problem as they have to purchase the higher number of points whether they go there for a whole week or a few days. Conclusion: Deeded owners have it made. New owners are the ones who loose under this new system.

I guess I agree with you some and disagree some. I don't see how providing reduced points helps owners. Yes, to decrease the effect of breakage Marriott can reduce the point allocation for participating owners. But that hurts owners more than allowing owners full points. If I had the option to choose between having full points but due to breakage I had less ability to get a direct reservation vs always being short points when reserving at other resorts, I'll take full points everytime. The rationale about providing insufficient points for reservations based on breakage is a smokescreen for developer profits, nothing more.

While all this theoretical discussion about how the new program should or should not work is certainly beneficial, ultimately the advantages and disadvantages to owners will be based on the actual usability of the program. In this regard, I will reserve my final judgment until after the program has time to play out. However, my actual personal experience so far is as follows:

- After I enrolled my five weeks, Marriott somehow lost two of the weeks in their system, and after a great deal of time and effort on my part, I am still not 100% sure they have resolved the problem

- Every call with Marriott has relatively long wait times, and they have no idea when we can manage our points and reservations online, like in the past. So for now, it all has to be done over the phone.

- I have been on the waiting list since July for a simple two day points usage in Hawaii, and nothing has come through.

- I tried to take advantage of the 50% off points sale announced last week (i.e., to stay at certain properties at half the point value in early December), but none of the three designated properties I checked had availability for the room type I desired.

- I have had success reserving units at three lessor demand properties during non-peak times.

- The many, many Interval International trade opportunities that existed in the past have virtually all dried up, except for less desirable locations and times of the year.

So, my initial conclusion is that the system will work great if you want to go to lessor properties during non-peak times, but reserving in a high value property during a peak time is virtually impossible. (Which is something I had great success doing through Interval International trades in the past. Unfortunately, those trades are no longer showing up on II due to the new system.)