Manhattan Club Lawsuit

Every year I get a bill via email about 6 months before it is due. I write back and kindly point out that my bill is not due for another six months. I don't hear from them again and I don't pay until I am ready to pay. My bill always has the maintenance fees and taxes clearly broken out. I also make it very clear on the phone and in writing that when I pay my fees, that the credit card number I am giving them is for a one time purchase only, not to be kept on file and they write back confirming that this is understood. I continue to pay my fees because I continue to use and enjoy the club.

Did anybody read about the judge's ruling? There's an article in Timesharing Today. I was checking here to see what people think it means, besides being good for us. Nancy Wilson

don't trust anyone at the manhattan club. DO NOT PAY MAINTENANCE OR TAX VIA CREDIT CARD (IF YOU CHOOSE TO PAY AT ALL). PAY BY CHECK: ONE CHECK FOR MAINTENANCE CLEARLY MARKED AS SUCH, AND ANOTHER CHECK FOR REAL ESTATE TAX, AGAIN CLEARLY MARKED FOR THAT PURPOSE. i would not put it past TMC to keep your credit info on file, even without your knowledge. who knows, they might be getting desperate, even though their bravado remains in place..............a good tactic to try to beat the system. mr madoff got away with it for an number of years before it and his conscience caught up with him, and the walls came tumbling down, along with his bravado!

deborahs528 wrote:

Every year I get a bill via email about 6 months before it is due. I write back and kindly point out that my bill is not due for another six months. I don't hear from them again and I don't pay until I am ready to pay. My bill always has the maintenance fees and taxes clearly broken out. I also make it very clear on the phone and in writing that when I pay my fees, that the credit card number I am giving them is for a one time purchase only, not to be kept on file and they write back confirming that this is understood. I continue to pay my fees because I continue to use and enjoy the club.

Thanks, will do.

davidh1203 wrote:

Hi Jills 465, My advice to you is to inform AMEX that you are cancelling the automatic permission you gave the MC to pay for the maintenance fees. This way when your fees are due tmcy will send you an itemize notice. Keeping the automatic permission will guarantee your fees are going to be charged MONTHS before your anniversary.

nancyw493 wrote:

Did anybody read about the judge's ruling? There's an article in Timesharing Today. I was checking here to see what people think it means, besides being good for us. Nancy Wilson

Which Judges ruling and can you share the link to the article??

Jills465,

My first recommendation to all TMC owners is to STOP ALL PAYMENTS TO TMC. By continuing to make payments you are funding their legal fight against us owners and the NY Attorney General. I believe that the AG has satisfactorily proven that the owners of TMC have been lining their pockets personally while orchestrating a massive fraud against all the timeshare owners. They have been stealing from us for years, through a very sophisticated, elaborate scheme using dummy corporations among other things, but stealing none the less.

Of course you have a right to know precisely what they are trying to bill you for. Your original contract and purchase documents should clearly spell out what fees you are expected to pay and when you are expected to pay them. That date should be the anniversary date of your purchase. But with your split week that should mean you are expected to pay every other year.

Repeating the recommendation of others, cancel all credit card permissions to TMC or they will continue to rip you off at every opportunity.

Definately do not pay anything more to these crooks until the AG's investigation and possible charges have run their course.

Bob Biello

Here's the article:

NY Judge rules against The Manhattan Club Developer - tightens controls over its operations - a victory for its owners By Jeff Weir

In a stinging ruling that handed a slam-dunk victory to timeshare owners at the Manhattan Club, a New York judge May 26 rejected all of developer Ian Bruce Eichner's motions to get out from under a two-year-old civil and criminal fraud investigation mounted by New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman.

In her 19-page ruling, New York Supreme Court Justice Eileen Rakower not only denied every one of Eichner's motions to dismiss or curtail the investigation, but issued a new order freezing the bank accounts of an Eichner company, New York Urban Management LLC, that pocketed $6.1 to $6.8 million per year for managing operations at the Manhattan Club. The judge noted that Urban, which collected 20 percent of all owner maintenance fees annually, had no employees until August 2014, one month after Schneiderman secured a court order that shut down the club's timeshare operation and froze all bank accounts.

While not a surprise -- at least to lawyers familiar with New York's civil justice system -- Rakower's rulings reaffirmed conclusions that thousands of Manhattan Club owners have long held as bitter truths: that they were misled and defrauded at time of sale, then denied reservations repeatedly as their maintenance fees soared from hundreds to thousands of dollars per year while the club increased nightly rentals to non-owners through popular travel sites and other vacation clubs.

Eichner's legal team, following a public hearing on March 11, filed supplemental briefs attacking the AG's investigation. They also asked Rakower to lift the injunction upon Eichner and his colleagues, including Urban, on assertions that "there was no allegation that the Eichners personally engaged in any wrongful conduct, or that Urban was engaged in wrongdoing."

In rejecting that motion, Rakower observed that it would be premature to vacate the existing injunction until the under-oath depositions of Eichner and his colleagues are fulfilled pursuant to the July 2014 court order that put the timeshare club, in effect, out of business. Eichner's legal team are simultaneously fighting those depositions on grounds that testimony in a civil proceeding could be used, potentially, against the Eichners in a criminal case. A hearing on those depositions is set for June 14. The court ruling provides a concise recap of the entire case, which has already spawned thousands of pages of court filings, motions and counter-arguments. Here are Rakower's additional rulings:

"The court declines the Eichner respondents' request to modify the order to allow new timeshare purchasers to complete their purchases. The court also declines to issue an order setting discovery and deposition cut-off dates, a termination date for NYAG's investigation, and prohibiting NYAG from sending 'mass mailings' to timeshare owners.

"With respect to NYAG's cross motion, the court finds that additional injunctive relief against Urban is 'proper and expedient' in light of Urban's significant role in managing the timeshare project."

Finally, the judge deferred a ruling on the AG's motion to secure civil contempt fines against Eichner's group for withdrawing $368,738 from the club's bank accounts without court approval. An evidentiary hearing must be held on that issue prior to any ruling, Rakower said.

The only question now, according to lawyers watching the Manhattan Club case, is whether Eichner's team appeals Rakower's decisions to a higher court. If that happens, and the lawyers fully expect it will, Manhattan's longest-running off-Broadway timeshare drama will continue into its third year of legal maneuvers while owners fret over their reservations, maintenance fees and legal options to sell or abandon their timeshares.

New TimeSharing Today interview with Doug Wasser, attorney Lowell Sidney, and RedWeek's Jeff Weir:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0leUBpTaKg

Should we be paying any maintenance fees when they are billed? Can they come after us? Due we owe these fees while the lawsuit is continuing?

I AM SO THANKFUL TO WHOEVER REPORTED ALL THE DETAILS OF THE HEARING. I DO BELIEVE THAT THE TRUTH WILL PREVAIL. PLEASE KEEP US OWNERS INFORMED. WE ARE MOST APPRECIATED.

I posted the following comment a month ago, but I think it warrants repeating as I see new Manhattan Club victims joining this site.

" I really got an education when I found the RedWeek site over a year ago, and reviewed all the pages of postings, which now number over 100 plus pages of postings. That's literally thousands of complaints. I've been following the RedWeek site since then, and the majority of owners have the same complaint; for years, despite paying our fees, we have been routinely cheated out of the use of our timeshare while the Eichner family and a small circle of TMC insiders have enriched themselves at our expense.

The icing on the cake for me and my wife, and what finally convinced us to stop paying TMC, was when we read the NY Attorney General's July, 2015 court filing, which itemizes a remarkable list of allegations of civil and criminal conduct on the part of The Manhattan Club. This includes the charge that for years, Eichner has been personally skimming 4-6 million dollars a year from TMC through a shell management company that had no employees and provided no services to the operation of the timeshare property. In reading through the filing, I got sick as I learned how badly we have been cheated and how unscrupulous and devious the principals at TMC were as they perpetrated their fraud against us, in our case, for over 10 years. The enormity of the fraud and the magnitude of the numbers is staggering... at least 14,000 owners, 250 rooms, 52 weeks a year ( in some cases they actually sold more than 52 weeks!) at $2500-$4000 annual maintenance payments each.

If you haven't already read this court filing, it is a MUST read for any Manhattan Club owner. Here is the link to that 2015 AG court filing: You may have to paste it into your browser.

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=arMAhc2Z8epneiTXUbb_PLUS_yQ==&system=prod

By simply withholding two years' maintenance payments, I'm nearly $5,000 ahead. Knowing what we now know, I'm amazed that anyone would voluntarily continue to send these crooks money. Revoke your credit card authorization, stop sending checks, stop funding the people who are screwing all of us."

As far as consequences for non-payment, TMC is explicitly PROHIBITED BY COURT ORDER from taking collection action against you. We financed the purchase of one of our units and have stopped paying on that note in addition to not paying maintenance. TMC posted a negative comment on our credit report, but I was able to get it removed when I proved to the credit bureau that they were posting negative comments submitted by an organization that was itself under criminal investigation by the NY attorney general.

Bob Biello

Reminder Next Manhattan Club Court Hearing is Tuesday June 14, 2016 at 11am

The location of the New York AG vs Manhattan Club June 14, 2016 hearing at 11:00am is Judge Rakower's court room, 71 Thomas Street, Part 15, New York, New York 10013

Bob, what will TMC due when the case is settled? Will you be able to get back in without paying all the past due maintenance fees? Or are you just getting out! Ken

kens211 wrote:

Bob, what will TMC due when the case is settled? Will you be able to get back in without paying all the past due maintenance fees? Or are you just getting out! Ken

The following is a statement/question I posed to someone well versed in the TMC debacle and who generally agreed with my assessment and pointed out we, as owners, may not be able to eventually sue if a statute of limitations scenario prevails.

My understanding of the situation is that the NYAG is looking to make Eichner and his “people” accountable for fraud and whatever other crimes they have committed…but it doesn’t appear he is working for TMC owners per se (as I have heard more than once over the last couple of years)…he is using the supporting info we give him to help his case. It remains to be seen what will happen and whether or not we owners will benefit in any way, if at all…..And if the AG “wins”, does it give owners a leg to stand on if we wanted to attempt a class action suit.

I would also like to add that I don't think anyone on this forum should be bullying other owners into not paying their fees. It is a very personal decision. I have opted to continue to pay my fees and enjoy the club...I honor anyone elses decision not to pay their fees, but it is not their place to tell others not to pay their fees and attempt to lay a guilt trip by saying we are then supporting Eichner by paying his legal fees. And, I ask do you have proof of this?

By paying fraudulently raised MC fees we are supporting not only Eichner but accepting BS of the shell structures, legality to insulting consumers, corruption in the country, and much more that has to be over. If you'd like to see positive future for the nation.

Kens211,

We've given up any hope of recovering anything from TMC due to the AG's investigation, and decided to stop throwing good money after bad. As I see it, TMC and its principals, Eichner et al, will get slap on the wrist as a result of the AG's action, promise to be good boys going forward, and promise to stop screwing people, and basically nothing will change. The fraud which has already taken place will be viewed as past history and can't be undone. We owners will see no compensation unless there is eventually a successful class action... years down the road. We'll still never actually recover any money, they'll just bankrupt the corporation and walk away thumbing their noses at us, keeping all the stolen money.

I expect the worst that will happen to non-payers is TMC (original or reconstituted structure) will take back our weeks by foreclosure or deed surrender and we'll be finished with this fiasco. In the meantime, I'm saving money every month by not paying the crooks.

What makes you so certain that the AG will not seek some financial recovery for the owners? And, might not the statute of limitations limit any recovery we might expect in a class action?

robertb1802 wrote:

Kens211,

We've given up any hope of recovering anything from TMC due to the AG's investigation, and decided to stop throwing good money after bad. As I see it, TMC and its principals, Eichner et al, will get slap on the wrist as a result of the AG's action, promise to be good boys going forward, and promise to stop screwing people, and basically nothing will change. The fraud which has already taken place will be viewed as past history and can't be undone. We owners will see no compensation unless there is eventually a successful class action... years down the road. We'll still never actually recover any money, they'll just bankrupt the corporation and walk away thumbing their noses at us, keeping all the stolen money.

I expect the worst that will happen to non-payers is TMC (original or reconstituted structure) will take back our weeks by foreclosure or deed surrender and we'll be finished with this fiasco. In the meantime, I'm saving money every month by not paying the crooks.

It is a little confusing, but I thought that the NYAG took the criminal charges off the table in order to compel the defendants to be deposed (they were using the threat of criminal charges as a reason they could not).

Moreover, I never expected that the NYAG would necessarily pursue a remedy on the owner's behalf unless there was a settlement where the defendants agreed to provide relief in lieu of risking a judgement against them in the NYAG case.

If there is a trial, I expect the NYAG will prosecute a case of fraud, and if the defendants lose, they will then face the prospect of lawsuits from the owners, either singly or collectively, where the owners start with the finding that they have a judgement of fraud from the NYAG case against the defendants. (This usually provides a lot of motivation for the defendants to settle the NYAG suit with an agreement that would give the owners substantial relief if they think there is any chance the NYAG would prevail)

I am not aware of a statute of limitations in a fraud case like this, but I admit I don't have a clue about how New York rules work.

craig, i agree with much of what you wrote and the process you described: i don't know how old you are, and i'd prefer not divulging my age (which will be 79...this july! OOPS) in this forum, but..........here goes..................how long do you think it would it take us, after the ag's assumptive "win", to settle the remains and spoils with eichner and his fraudulent (and schemingly brilliant) team/cohorts? i'll take a guess: i think i'll be in the NIRVANA SUITE OF THE MANHATTAN CLUB by the time any equitable settlement between us owners and eichner comes to fruition. ha, at that point, the statute of limitations would become a contradiction of terms.

be happy and stay well.

chris

craigr32 wrote:

It is a little confusing, but I thought that the NYAG took the criminal charges off the table in order to compel the defendants to be deposed (they were using the threat of criminal charges as a reason they could not).

Moreover, I never expected that the NYAG would necessarily pursue a remedy on the owner's behalf unless there was a settlement where the defendants agreed to provide relief in lieu of risking a judgement against them in the NYAG case.

If there is a trial, I expect the NYAG will prosecute a case of fraud, and if the defendants lose, they will then face the prospect of lawsuits from the owners, either singly or collectively, where the owners start with the finding that they have a judgement of fraud from the NYAG case against the defendants. (This usually provides a lot of motivation for the defendants to settle the NYAG suit with an agreement that would give the owners substantial relief if they think there is any chance the NYAG would prevail)

I am not aware of a statute of limitations in a fraud case like this, but I admit I don't have a clue about how New York rules work.

My suggestion to those who will attend the Court Hearing on June 14, 2016 at 11 a.m, is to arrange a kind of a silent picket around the court building. The owners might bring hand-written slogans on Eichner's fraud. I am not familiar with NY protest laws but I believe each protestant who will be standing within X feet-location from the other one would not require a special permission from the governance. We also could notify CBS news on the event.