Getting rid of your timeshare

Jayjay perhaps you need to go back to the beginning to this thread, then you wouldn't keep asking such stupid questions. When other 'defaulting' owners allowed their timeshares to go to foreclosure, they obviously had no thought concerning the rest of us having to take up the slack...my fees doubled in 2 years to the point that I could no longer cover them. I chose what was best for me at that time, and please note that I didn't let my unit go to foreclosure I chose to pay someone to take it off my hands, and as I signed the transfer I also know that they immediately sold it on. So as far as I'm concerned I was a responsible owner unlike a lot of others. Maybe you need to get off your high horse and have a little compassion for people who find themselves in very difficult circumstances.

donp196 wrote:

It's my tax return and my penalty and interest if I lose my case with the IRS and I wouldn't be able to sleep at night with that hanging over my head.

You said it in a nutshell .... the penalties and interest can add up over the years .... beware of false prophets.

christine514 wrote:

When other 'defaulting' owners allowed their timeshares to go to foreclosure, they obviously had no thought concerning the rest of us having to take up the slack...my fees doubled in 2 years to the point that I could no longer cover them. I chose what was best for me at that time, and please note that I didn't let my unit go to foreclosure I chose to pay someone to take it off my hands, and as I signed the transfer I also know that they immediately sold it on.

That charity resold your donated timeshare .... DRK's scam charity has no interest in selling unwanted timeshares .... they merely hold onto the deed for 36 months (all the while paying no yearly maintenance fees) until it goes into foreclosure leaving all the other owners taking up the slack .... so what they're doing is what the foreclosed owners did at your resort resulting in doubling your maintenance fees.

Your charity situation was nothing like DRK's scam ..... apples to oranges .... no comparison.

christine514 wrote:

Jayjay perhaps you need to go back to the beginning to this thread, then you wouldn't keep asking such stupid questions. When other 'defaulting' owners allowed their timeshares to go to foreclosure, they obviously had no thought concerning the rest of us having to take up the slack...my fees doubled in 2 years to the point that I could no longer cover them. I chose what was best for me at that time, and please note that I didn't let my unit go to foreclosure I chose to pay someone to take it off my hands, and as I signed the transfer I also know that they immediately sold it on. So as far as I'm concerned I was a responsible owner unlike a lot of others. Maybe you need to get off your high horse and have a little compassion for people who find themselves in very difficult circumstances.

What I find puzzling about your situation is that it's evident your timeshare had value or DFAC wouldn't have taken it in the first place ..... if they turned around and immediately sold it then you could have easily given it away spending nothing. I'm puzzled that you never thought of this instead of paying DFAC thousands of dollars to take it.

Oh, I have compassion for people who are in difficult situations, but there's a right way to do things and there's a wrong way and scams such as DRK's is not the right way.

12. Abuse of Charitable Organizations and Deductions

The IRS continues to observe the misuse of tax-exempt organizations. Misuse includes arrangements to improperly shield income or assets from taxation, attempts by donors to maintain control over donated assets or income from donated property and overvaluation of contributed property. In addition, IRS examiners are seeing an upturn in instances where taxpayers try to disguise private tuition payments as contributions to charitable or religious organizations.

How to Report Suspected Tax Fraud Activity

Suspected tax fraud can be reported to the IRS using IRS Form 3949-A, Information Referral. Form 3949-A is available for download from the IRS Web site at IRS.gov. The completed form or a letter detailing the alleged fraudulent activity should be addressed to the Internal Revenue Service, Fresno, CA 93888. The mailing should include specific information about who is being reported, the activity being reported, how the activity became known, when the alleged violation took place, the amount of money involved and any other information that might be helpful in an investigation. The person filing the report is not required to self-identify, although it is helpful to do so. The identity of the person filing the report can be kept confidential.

Whistleblowers also could provide allegations of fraud to the IRS and may be eligible for a reward by filing Form 211, Application for Award for Original Information, and following the procedures outlined in Notice 2008-4, Claims Submitted to the IRS Whistleblower Office under Section 7623.

jayjay wrote:

12. Abuse of Charitable Organizations and Deductions

The IRS continues to observe the misuse of tax-exempt organizations. Misuse includes arrangements to improperly shield income or assets from taxation, attempts by donors to maintain control over donated assets or income from donated property and overvaluation of contributed property. In addition, IRS examiners are seeing an upturn in instances where taxpayers try to disguise private tuition payments as contributions to charitable or religious organizations.

Finally, Jayjay found something from the IRS to quote. Unfortunately it has no application to this topic or his claims of fraud, scam, and deception he claims from Community Health Training, Inc., Donate For A Cause, or other charities that charge a fee to accept a timeshare. Also, jayjay, were you unable to read that the entire section applies, not to the charity, but to the donor? Or did you only read the title and not bother with the rest?

The IRS says it clearly. . . . misuse of (not by) tax-exempt organizations. 1. Misuse includes arrangements to improperly shield income or assets from taxation, 2. attempts by donors to maintain control over donated assets or income from donated property and 3. overvaluation of contributed property.

Of course, maybe jayjay thinks we are helping donors ". . . disguise private tuition payments as contributions. . ."

Jayjay, you are certainly welcome to report us to the IRS and tell us all your results. After all, once we've been thrown into prison we won't be able to report back. Until then, please try to find some relevant IRS documentation regarding your claims of fraud, scam and abuse.

As for HOAs deciding not to take back timeshares. If the timeshare has any value and they truly are working with the resort, why would it be in their better interest to hope to collect on due bills rather than to let the resort resell it for them at resort prices and split the profit. That would be a lot more money.

christine514 wrote:

. . . and as I signed the transfer I also know that they immediately sold it on.

I, too, wonder why DFAC charge you any fee when their normal policy in reselling a timeshare is to not charge the donor any fee. I suspect they told you it was to cover their potential owner's maintenance fees for the next several years. I think others, along with me, would appreciate your checking with DFAC to find out if they actually did resell your timeshare. If they did, that's what I would consider exorbitant.

drk14 wrote:

christine514 wrote:

. . . and as I signed the transfer I also know that they immediately sold it on.

I, too, wonder why DFAC charge you any fee when their normal policy in reselling a timeshare is to not charge the donor any fee. I suspect they told you it was to cover their potential owner's maintenance fees for the next several years. I think others, along with me, would appreciate your checking with DFAC to find out if they actually did resell your timeshare. If they did, that's what I would consider exorbitant.

BECAUSE of the economy timeshares are not worth anything like they were pre-2006 .... many people paid thousands of dollars to buy timeshares then after 2006 many of those same timeshares were selling for pennies on the dollar. Even Marriott suspended their ROFR (Right of First Refusal) due to the spiraling downfall of the timeshare industry. That's why the IRS states that the donated timeshare must be listed at CURRENT Fair Market Value (now, not pre-2006 developer price). And this is how you'll be caught one day.

And why DFAC now charges a large upfront fee to take a timeshare when they didn't previously charge anything is anybody's guess, but I assume that they now charge a fee due to the economy and the fact that a timeshares' worth has deflated tremendously, but they still won't take timeshares they think they can't resell or get rid of.

jayjay wrote:

BECAUSE of the economy timeshares are not worth anything like they were pre-2006.

You are so right. However, it brings up an interesting question. How are the resorts still able to sell theirs at their presentations for the exorbitant prices they get? If they are, why wouldn't an HOA let the resort sales team resell those they take back at the resorts selling price and give 50% or even more to the resort sales group? Is it unreasonable to hope the sales team and the HOA are working to help each other when they can? They would still make more money than trying to collect on delinquent maintenance fees and it would help the desperate owners out of their financial crisis.

They wouldn't be selling at after market prices. The sales would be done as part of the resort's sales process, but with more profit since the unit has already been paid for and doesn't have to be rebuilt again. If each of 50 weeks (two off for maintenance) is sold to pay for the unit having been originally built, and one gets resold by the sales force again, it represents pure profit with only sales commissions and costs again. Am I missing something?

The HOA gets extra money. The resort sales force gets extra profit. The desperate financially owner gets out of their problem and there's no need for us or any other outside sales system. That sound's like a win, win, win solution. How do we go about getting the resorts and HOA to go along with this?

drk14 wrote:

jayjay wrote:

BECAUSE of the economy timeshares are not worth anything like they were pre-2006.

You are so right. However, it brings up an interesting question. How are the resorts still able to sell theirs at their presentations for the exorbitant prices they get? If they are, why wouldn't an HOA let the resort sales team resell those they take back at the resorts selling price and give 50% or even more to the resort sales group? Is it unreasonable to hope the sales team and the HOA are working to help each other when they can? They would still make more money than trying to collect on delinquent maintenance fees and it would help the desperate owners out of their financial crisis.

They wouldn't be selling at after market prices. The sales would be done as part of the resort's sales process, but with more profit since the unit has already been paid for and doesn't have to be rebuilt again. If each of 50 weeks (two off for maintenance) is sold to pay for the unit having been originally built, and one gets resold by the sales force again, it represents pure profit with only sales commissions and costs again. Am I missing something?

The HOA gets extra money. The resort sales force gets extra profit. The desperate financially owner gets out of their problem and there's no need for us or any other outside sales system. That sound's like a win, win, win solution. How do we go about getting the resorts and HOA to go along with this?

Because if the resort took back every timeshare every owner wanted to dump (due to whatever reason) the HOA could not sell them fast enough to maintain the resort. Also, people are not buying timeshares in this economy as timeshares are considered a luxury (not needed) item.

The resort would have to employ salespeople which they couldn't afford without maintenance fees coming in. You have to remember that the HOA is not the developer .... the HOA are non-paid owners that wish to see that the resort is maintained properly. If they thought it prudent to take back every timeshare that an owner wanted to dump and they could resale, then they would.

You have to remember that a contract was signed, notarized and is listed in property records at county courthouses. They're not just something the developer sold to an unsuspecting client with no legal contract involved.

And that's what I can't get my head around .... people thinking they can just give back something that they signed a legal contract for and then they're surprised when the HOA comes after them for non-payment. You couldn't do that with any other product on the market but for some inexplicable reason people think their timeshares are exempt from the same rules as other purchases.

Also, the county gets taxes from those sold timeshares so it goes deeper than just the resort and HOA.

I think the day will come when resorts will not recognize nor transfer any timeshare that has been signed over to a charity or an LLC BECAUSE of scams like yours.

You may say that you're merely going by IRS rules, but what you're doing is unethical morally (I'm sure you don't care) as you stated "your charity doesn't care if the timeshare goes into foreclosure" leaving other owners holding the bag for the deadbeats .... YOU, that came about ownership in an unethical manner and have no intention of paying maintenance fees.

I sincerely hope that you're not the person on that webpage that claims he has a doctorate.

jayjay wrote:

I think the day will come when resorts will not recognize nor transfer any timeshare that has been signed over to a charity or an LLC BECAUSE of scams like yours.

You may say that you're merely going by IRS rules, but what you're doing is unethical morally (I'm sure you don't care) as you stated "your charity doesn't care if the timeshare goes into foreclosure" leaving other owners holding the bag for the deadbeats .... YOU, that came about ownership in an unethical manner and have no intention of paying maintenance fees.

I sincerely hope that you're not the person on that webpage that claims he has a doctorate.

jayjay wrote:

I think the day will come when resorts will not recognize nor transfer any timeshare that has been signed over to a charity or an LLC BECAUSE of scams like yours.

I sincerely hope that you're not the person on that webpage that claims he has a doctorate.

Oh, ye of so little knowledge. It's not up to the resort to recognize or transfer title in real estate transactions. On the other hand, if it is a simple membership contract without a deed, it is a totally different matter and the resort can have a say in it since they have to accept a new payer on the contract. As for real estate deeds, the resort is not on title and can have no say in it's transfer. So, you and other resort people will just keep on dreaming.

And yes, I am the retired physician. As a former real estate broker who went on for an MBA and then on to medical school I do have some background in what I talk about here. More importantly, I know how to research and find actual documentation for what I teach. And in the process I have the ability to read it and understand when it applies or is irrelevant to a specific question or topic.

On the other hand, I wonder which resort you work for. Can you please give us some background on your expertise? Or be willing to publish a webpage giving a background others can look up? Or is such openness anathema to you?

Let me see if I get this straight. You're a retired physician and a former real estate broker and you find it necessary to take money from people who are desperate to get out of a financial situation they are stuck in. Someone in your financial situation should be doing it pro bono not taking other peoples money.

donp196 wrote:

Let me see if I get this straight. You're a retired physician and a former real estate broker and you find it necessary to take money from people who are desperate to get out of a financial situation they are stuck in. Someone in your financial situation should be doing it pro bono not taking other peoples money.

drk14 wrote:

Oh, ye of so little knowledge. It's not up to the resort to recognize or transfer title in real estate transactions. On the other hand, if it is a simple membership contract without a deed, it is a totally different matter and the resort can have a say in it since they have to accept a new payer on the contract. As for real estate deeds, the resort is not on title and can have no say in it's transfer. So, you and other resort people will just keep on dreaming.

You can't simply fill out a contract without a deed. A deed has to be recorded in a courthouse naming the new owner in order for taxes to be paid .... the county will also come after you one day. You say "the resort has no say in it since they have to accept a new payer on the contract". You're just digging yourself deeper and deeper since your socalled charity is the new payer, which your socalled charity has no intention of paying any future maintenance fees (it's posted in black and white on your webpage).

I doubt seriously you have a doctorate or even a high school degree. If you did you'd be working at a legitimate career, not for a scam operation.

You knowingly take $900 ($500 for you, $400 for closing) from people for supposedly taking their timeshare (however you say you take no deed ..... merely a contract ?????) and have no intention of paying future fees leaving other resort owners paying for the deadbeats.

Let's see now, you've used the people who would be stupid enough to do business with you, you've used the resort and it's owners, you've used the county (by not paying taxes) and last but not least you've used the IRS and more than likely you've committed wire and/or postal fraud .... you have knowingly involved yourself with fradulent practices.

If you'll take the time to read the Buying, Selling and Renting forum here, you'll see posts in which timeshare scammers are being caught or are in the process of being litigated as we speak .... the numbers grow by the day and one day it will come your way.

Seems to me you must have gotten your education in prison. The vast majority of highly educated people don't scam people .... they don't have to .... they have a career.

'Seems to me you must have gotten your education in prison. The vast majority of highly educated people don't scam people .... they don't have to .... they have a career.'

THERE YOU GO WITH THE CHILDISH INSULTS AGAIN...By the way some of the best scams are definitely performed by 'educated people' , you are again showing how naive you are. Just stick to your so called facts!! and leave the clever retorts to others.

DRK, I'm tired of arguing with you (scammer). If Redweek continues allowing your bogus scam charity to be advertised in the forums (ads are NOT supposed to be placed in the forums .... I can't understand why they're allowing you to) then so be it. If people want to throw good money after bad to you and your two partners in crime closing companies (totaling $900) then I really don't give a damn. I've given them advice .... if they don't take it then there's nothing else I can do and I'm weary of trying.

Your posts here are blatant ads.

jayjay wrote:

DRK, I'm tired of arguing with you (scammer). If Redweek continues allowing your bogus scam charity to be advertised in the forums (ads are NOT supposed to be placed in the forums .... I can't understand why they're allowing you to) then so be it. If people want to throw good money after bad to you and your two partners in crime closing companies (totaling $900) then I really don't give a damn. I've given them advice .... if they don't take it then there's nothing else I can do and I'm weary of trying.

Your posts here are blatant ads.

Good to hear you're giving up. Other than spurious claims you've never been able or willing to check on any facts anyway. Other readers have realized that and welcome your decision.

As for us we will continue to give the truth to those wanting help. We have stated several times we are not the first or best choice, but we are a legitimate option that does work for the mast majority of owners who have tried everything else.

As for RedWeek, it's my belief they saw this as an informative discussion for the benefit of many readers. My presentation has been more in defense due to your accusations than any "advertising". I thank RedWeek for their willingness to allow diverse opinions to be discussed generally without censure.

In addition, I can't help but think that someone at RedWeek HAS checked out everything we've written and found that what we have said is not a scam or they would have weighed in on it on your side long ago. I have challenged you to do this and you've refused. I would ask them and any other reader to do the same and then report to us all here what their results are. This comes from knowledge that what we do is honest, legal, forthright, effective, and can be checked out independently by anyone any time.

drk14 wrote:

Good to hear you're giving up. Other than spurious claims you've never been able or willing to check on any facts anyway. Other readers have realized that and welcome your decision.

As for us we will continue to give the truth to those wanting help. We have stated several times we are not the first or best choice, but we are a legitimate option that does work for the mast majority of owners who have tried everything else.

As for RedWeek, it's my belief they saw this as an informative discussion for the benefit of many readers. My presentation has been more in defense due to your accusations than any "advertising". I thank RedWeek for their willingness to allow diverse opinions to be discussed generally without censure.

In addition, I can't help but think that someone at RedWeek HAS checked out everything we've written and found that what we have said is not a scam or they would have weighed in on it on your side long ago. I have challenged you to do this and you've refused. I would ask them and any other reader to do the same and then report to us all here what their results are. This comes from knowledge that what we do is honest, legal, forthright, effective, and can be checked out independently by anyone any time.

SCAM

DRK ..... I have absolutely no problem with you charging a fee for your services if they are legit. I know that there are expenses involved with the process. i do have two major issues that I would like you to address. The first is that you claim to hold the deeds for three years without paying any maintenance fees to the HOA. That means that the other owners get stuck paying additional money to cover those costs. I could not do that. I have a conscience that wouldn't allow me to do something like that. The second issue is that you tell everyone that they can deduct $ 5,000.00 for contributing to a charity based on giving up their timesahres. I know for a fact that this is not true in this case. The IRS will only let you take the deduction for the actual amount that the timeshare was sold for if it sold at all. They do the same for people who donate their vehicles. Anyone who would be naive enough to try to take a $ 5,000.00 write off is just asking to get nailed by the IRS. You can put up all the smoke and mirrors you want but that is the law.