Marriott Going to Point Syst

We should strongly support the suggestion to make a list of improvements we wish to see in the Destination Program. Let's number them so we can better keep track. If you wish to add one just use the next number.

1. REQUEST FIRST. Allow for a "Request First" basis so you can keep your week if it you don't get the point time being requested. (If it works for II it should work for Marriott.)

2. POINTS GOOD FOR AT LEAST TWO YEARS. Allow points to be good for at least two years without having to go through their banking process by June 30th. If you are waiting for something the last 6 months of the year, you loose the points if you don't get it. This is silly. (If II can do it for three years, seems Marriott should be able to do it for two.)

3. A WEEK/SEASON EQUALITY - NO MORE SKIMMING For example a platinum week at a premier resort is equal to a platinum week at an equal resort. So, if you own a platinum week at a beach resort and want to go to a platinum week at a ski resort you have equal points; or even enough points to get the same week at the same resort on a different platinum week!

4. A CALENDAR PRIORITY SYSTEM - WITHOUT BLACKOUT DATES Sheraton uses a 12-8 month window and I think that works pretty well. For example if I want to go to my resort in August 2011, I would have priority to reserve there from August 2010 to January 2011. After that it is open to other owners to reserve if they have the correct number of points.

Remember WE ARE THE OWNERS of these properties. Marriott SOLD THEM TO US. We should be able to use them.

5. THE ABILITY TO BARROW FROM FUTURE POINTS YOU OWN IN ANY INCREMENT. For this example I am going to use arbitrary numbers that I know are not real values but are easy for math purposes.

So, if I want to go to a resort, there is availability, I need 1,500 points but only have 1,100 points. I could barrow from myself from my future week the 400 points I would need. This would leave a balance in my future account that I could use for a different stay that required less points.

deleted intentionally - was duplicate post

We attended a timeshare presentation yesterday at Newport Beach Coast Villas. What a disappointment, all ours fears were validated. Deeded weeks are a thing of the past and we will be basically phased out. We are screwed. It is true, all new properties are under points and are not available to deeded week owners unless you convert to points. Everything I said in my previous blog is true. They are point skimming,even the rep couldn't deny that! It is so sad! I would like to propose a rebellion. Do not convert to points and utilize Interval International for all trades. Otherwise, we lose access to any inventory. Marriott will control all available inventory and TELL you when and what is available....they can rent out the select weeks for cash! Or sell you more points! Oh yes, currently it is $9.20 per point. We were told by the end of the year it will be over $10.00 per point! And maintenance fees are .40 per point! What's next? $12.00 per point? They have DEVALUED our deeded property! Why is there no law suit? We intend to stay as we currently are until the last hurrah...we won't get anything if we sell it...pennies on the dollar! We will continue to trade via II. Any thoughts on this? Anything to add? Marriott, in my humble opinion betrayed it's loyal owners!

If we can somehow mobilize Marriott deeded week owners to either reserve and stay at their home resort, or to continue depositing and trading their weeks with II, maybe we can lesson the impact of this total betrayal of owner interests by Marriott.

I realize that the Marriott timeshare product has historically been great and I certainly want Marriott to succeed in the future. I personally would hate to see a lawsuit that destroys the Marriott timeshare brand (and essentially only benefits attorneys), but at the same time I am in favor of whatever we can do to protect our own interests.

"Marriott just sent out an email to owners that prices are increasing on Sept 9th."

I received nothing.

thomasn15 wrote:

...I personally would hate to see a lawsuit that destroys the Marriott timeshare brand (and essentially only benefits attorneys)...

Since there hasn't been a lawsuit yet against any developer or exchange company which I'd call successful (OK I think there have been maybe two or three in cases of very extreme developer/management abuse/neglect) and to date there have been no discernable effects on the reputation of developers/exchange companies, I sadly take the position we owners are getting shafted by developers, exchange companies, scammers, lawyers, DA's and politicians.

Who's at fault for this? We are. Or maybe I should take a less popular position and say most of you are. Even with education, or as I understand in some of your cases personal experience, too many of you buy into the lies told to you and buy direct, or pay scammers $500-$3,000 because you want to believe what they say so much you don't exercise your common sense and decide things like: - Since I don't see it in writing, what they are telling me is probably untrue - They lied to me before, they are probably lying to me now. - My god, that amount of money is so huge I could stay in some pretty nice timeshares renting instead for the next 10-15 years. - Holy begeezers, that timeshare they want me to pay $20k for is only worth $2k on the resale market. I don't care what they provide when I buy direct, it's just not worth it.

I conceed the sales people are very convincing. I admit my first resale purchase what not exactly what I thought I was buying. I've bought direct from one company three times. And that same company, after providing documents with contract language in simple form giving me full rights to rent "my" timeshares later suspended my accounts because I rented units out, and after almost two yesrs we are near an agreement where I don't lose money on my units but since I bought most on the resale market it is very dissappointing I'm not making any either.

But in my case I learned from my first mistake. Every timeshare I bought after that first one I only bought if I could verify the details of ownership. I bought direct from the developer thrice because for the cost of $12,000, $8,000 and $6,000 I was able to not only add a small amount of additional ownership to my portfolio, I was also able to convert over 20 resale purchases back into the full club membership. And as for the final issue, technically I had the contract allowing me to rent my units but of course when you are an individual it's a tough decision to spend $60k-$200k in legal fees to fight a fight when just letting it be over with without loss is a lot less risky.

debd26 wrote:

We attended a timeshare presentation yesterday at Newport Beach Coast Villas. What a disappointment, all ours fears were validated. Deeded weeks are a thing of the past and we will be basically phased out. We are screwed. It is true, all new properties are under points and are not available to deeded week owners unless you convert to points. Everything I said in my previous blog is true. They are point skimming,even the rep couldn't deny that! It is so sad! I would like to propose a rebellion. Do not convert to points and utilize Interval International for all trades. Otherwise, we lose access to any inventory. Marriott will control all available inventory and TELL you when and what is available....they can rent out the select weeks for cash! Or sell you more points! Oh yes, currently it is $9.20 per point. We were told by the end of the year it will be over $10.00 per point! And maintenance fees are .40 per point! What's next? $12.00 per point? They have DEVALUED our deeded property! Why is there no law suit? We intend to stay as we currently are until the last hurrah...we won't get anything if we sell it...pennies on the dollar! We will continue to trade via II. Any thoughts on this? Anything to add? Marriott, in my humble opinion betrayed it's loyal owners!

I appreciate your comments - but you (and other Marriott legacy owners) are far from screwed. Keep in mind:

1. The Destinations program for legacy owners is purely optional. Yes there are owners joining the program but the overwhelming majority of legacy owners will not join (and/ or contribute weeks for points) - especially those with high demand weeks in high owner usage resorts.

Look around the internet at the various Marriott forums and you will note most owners are joining because they fear they will miss something by not joining. You'll also note the number of owner comments whereby owners joined but do not intend to deposit weeks for points.

2. Rules, regulations, and covenants do not change at any of the legacy resorts. Procedures, access to inventory, reservations, etc. function the same as in the past.

3. Marriott has no access to legacy weeks for its Destination program. Legacy owners that choose to convert to points in any given year - will not have access to the legacy weeks - but will have only access to point resorts. While there may be some trading "dilution" - trading "dynamics" are essentially the same.

4. While legacy owners may have limited access to the new resorts going forward- new buyers will have difficulty accessing the legacy properties. With the economic times as they are, Marriott (being in a defensive development mode) does not have too many new resorts on the drawing board at the current time - so I would not be too concerned about being left out of new resorts over the next 24 - 48 months.

In my opinion - and I am not an attorney; if there is the potential for a lawsuit against Marriott it would be on this point. Owners prior to Marriott starting the Destinations program were promised that as Marriott expanded its resort network, owners would be able to enjoy trading and having ease of access to these resorts going forward. Certainly this point was made by sales operations on a daily basis for many years - be it expressed or implied - this point was used as an inducement to have owners purchase. In as much as this is no longer the case - a case for misrepresentation/ fraud could potentially be made through a class action suit by legacy owners.

5. Resale values in the secondary market are about the same as before the Destinations program was introduced to the owners. Resale values in recent years have been impacted by supply/ demand imbalance brought about by the poor economic conditions our country is currently experiencing.

6. Dissatisfied owners do have an option - and that is to contact your Board of Directors at your home resort and let your board members know of your concern/ displeasure with Marriott creating a product that changes the "rules of the game" and potentially introducing a program that negatively impacts your use and enjoyment of your timeshare going forward.

Surprisingly most owners do not quite understand that Marriott "works" for them when managing a "sold out" property. Board of Directors (on behalf of their owners) need to express to Marriott its owners displeasure with Marriott's current actions - possibly even demanding that Marriott cease with the marketing and sale of the Destinations program to its owners until the owner association reviews and agrees to the Destinations plan so that it is fair for all.

While individual owners may contact Marriott directly (and post on internet blogs) to voice their concerns - be assured this action carries no where near the impact that the Board of Directors, acting on behalf of its owners, carries in implementing and forcing changes.

Greeetings all,

Has anyone heard if Marriott as proposed a process/fee for adding resale deeded purchases to the Destination Points program? In June the stated deeds transferred after 20 Jun 2010 would not be eligible for the discounted joining offer. I did hear from one MVCI account rep who believed Marriott might offer entry options to the excluded owners but at a later date and perhaps for a different (higher?) fee.

thx

E. Cordova

PS: Thanks for all the constructive comments from this group. The inputs thru our association boards will carry thru to Marriott and should prompt them to improve the program. Cheers!

"Marriott legacy owners are far from screwed. Keep in mind:

1. The Destinations program for legacy owners is purely optional. Yes there are owners joining the program but the overwhelming majority of legacy owners will not join (and/ or contribute weeks for points) - especially those with high demand weeks in high owner usage resorts."

Great post! We return to HHI this week and plan to hear the Marriott pitch but based on what I have read, I expect we will not join or contribute weeks for points. We have gone to HHI in September for many years and hope to continue to do so for many more years. We own at Barony Beach. The crowds are gone, the weather is great, the golfing is fabulous, and the restaurants are way above average for a resort.

We, also own weeks on HHI and will be there in Sept. I am not going to any sales presentation because the point system is foolish for owners @ HHI and Hawaii. The sales rep will put the "full court press" on you to convert to points. They have no open inventory at the prime locations and they need to get it. Your reward will be higher fees, purchasing points.......and frustation. Watch your wallet.

richardr411 wrote:

We, also own weeks on HHI and will be there in Sept. I am not going to any sales presentation because the point system is foolish for owners @ HHI and Hawaii. The sales rep will put the "full court press" on you to convert to points. They have no open inventory at the prime locations and they need to get it. Your reward will be higher fees, purchasing points.......and frustation. Watch your wallet.

rm5 wrote:

debd26 wrote:

We attended .......... Any thoughts on this? Anything to add? Marriott, in my humble opinion betrayed it's loyal owners!

I appreciate your comments - but you (and other Marriott legacy owners) are far from screwed. Keep in mind:.......

..........While individual owners may contact Marriott directly (and post on internet blogs) to voice their concerns - be assured this action carries no where near the impact that the Board of Directors, acting on behalf of its owners, carries in implementing and forcing changes.

rm5, While I personally do appreciate the perspective you offer; could you please provide your relationship to Marriott? I know I would probably look at your comments with different perspective based on your interests in the subject. Thank you.

libby31 wrote:

rm5 wrote:

debd26 wrote:

We attended .......... Any thoughts on this? Anything to add? Marriott, in my humble opinion betrayed it's loyal owners!

I appreciate your comments - but you (and other Marriott legacy owners) are far from screwed. Keep in mind:.......

..........While individual owners may contact Marriott directly (and post on internet blogs) to voice their concerns - be assured this action carries no where near the impact that the Board of Directors, acting on behalf of its owners, carries in implementing and forcing changes.

rm5, While I personally do appreciate the perspective you offer; could you please provide your relationship to Marriott? I know I would probably look at your comments with different perspective based on your interests in the subject. Thank you.

I wrote a lengthy response to the above, but when I posted it, it disappeared...hmmmm.....Anyway, I too think we are screwed....don't have time to rewrite my response, but hope enough of us do NOT purchase points, that we will still be able to trade through II. We own Hawaii (Maui and Kauai) and Grand Ocean on Hilton Head....couldn't believe what we were going to get in return if we purchased points!

brucek88 wrote:

I'm in Palm Desert now and just signed up for the new system, as they turn the screws on you for an acceptance during the presentation. Knowing we have 10 days to cancel, I just went ahead and did it.

Concerns: *With our new points, it's possible we can no longer even get home resort for 7 nights. I spoke with the Marriott Desk at II and they explained that you can still book your week at your home resort.

* We might not be able to get any other resorts, based on what others are saying. Not an issue, as we have not been trading as well as others, so it might end up working out better.

We added 1,750 points to get Premier, which provides 13 month windows for reservations, similar to what multiple week owners had. We'd also of course have a few more points to be able to have short stays. But the MF's are sky high, at $0.40 a point.

I'm thinking it's better to wait and see how things go with the points we currently have. I will likely cancel our contract, as I had no other option during the tour. They did waive the $600 fee, but 1 year of new MF's will eat that up. And the $17K as we enter the double dip recession definitely keeps me up at night.

I will likely opt into the points system, as it appears it's a better way to go for owners who want to easily move within Marriott. We have no desire to stay at non-Marriott properties.

Did you cancel???

Just got off the phone requesting an II exchange and heard from the agent there that they are being trained on managing the Marriott point exchanges. She also mentioned that it's been a small percentage of owners who have bought into the points program so they don't know when they'll take over.

Found it very odd that I was able to book six 2 bedroom villas in the "highest time" (mid March) at the Desert Springs Villas in Palm Desert on the Marriott site. How is it that the hotel site had so much prime time inventory that I can't book through II?

What a mess... At least the rates were reasonable. Would prefer to do an exchange but I doubt the inventory will ever find it's way to II.

anewcastle4u wrote:

Just got off the phone requesting an II exchange and heard from the agent there that they are being trained on managing the Marriott point exchanges. She also mentioned that it's been a small percentage of owners who have bought into the points program so they don't know when they'll take over.

Found it very odd that I was able to book six 2 bedroom villas in the "highest time" (mid March) at the Desert Springs Villas in Palm Desert on the Marriott site. How is it that the hotel site had so much prime time inventory that I can't book through II?

What a mess... At least the rates were reasonable. Would prefer to do an exchange but I doubt the inventory will ever find it's way to II.

Hi anewcastle4u, So you went to Marriott.com (the hotel room rental site) and booked six, 2 bedroom units that you would normally exchange with II to get? That must have been very expensive.

It also brings up a question in my mind, what if an owner wanted to reserve a week at that time (if that is the season they owned)? Would the inventory now be gone?

Please don't misunderstand, I am happy for you that you got your reservation. I am just wondering how the hotel program reserving weeks affects owners.

I know in the past there was availability on the hotel reservation site for Vacation Club properties. But I thought they showed up there when an owner wanted to rent the week they owned and had reserved, and wanted to do it through the Marriott system instead of on their own. This may still be the case.

There is just so much confusion about the new system I didn't know if this is an aftermath of that or part of the way it was previously.

anewcastle4u wrote:

Found it very odd that I was able to book six 2 bedroom villas in the "highest time" (mid March) at the Desert Springs Villas in Palm Desert on the Marriott site. How is it that the hotel site had so much prime time inventory that I can't book through II?

1. The hotel inventory is from inventory that has been assigned to Marriott Vacation Club (MVC) for rental - or in lieu of owners receiving Marriott Rewards Points. When an owner elects Marriott Rewards for their annual usage option - their resort week is then assigned to Marriott for the company's use. These weeks generally end up in the hotel system. (Marriott's got to earn something for giving owners all those points.) When this occurs, the assigned weeks are not placed in II for exchange or typically available for MVC owners to reserve.

2. Keep in mind - Palm Desert has high owner usage during the Platinum season. Owners will reserve most of this inventory for personal usage at the resort.

3. Your ability to exchange for a week at PD through II is predicated on an owner turning a week into II. Exchange demand for the Platinum season exceeds supply because of the high owner usage during the winter at PD. This can make reserving weeks in the Platinum season at Desert Springs somewhat problematic at times.

4. With this noted, the hotel had several MVC villas and II did not have any available weeks with Marriott in PD assigned to it for you to exchange into at the time you were attempting to make a reservation.

PostedJuly 8, 2010 2:06 pm on the Interval International site "Community" forum - written by an II staff member

And if you believe this....???

"A number of questions and concerns have arisen over how Interval International will be supporting the new Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Program, and what impact, if any, this may have on existing MVCI owners’ access to Marriott resort internal exchanges. Interval will be supporting Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Program by providing access to Marriott weeks that have been relinquished by MVCI owners. However, the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Program will only enter a request for a particular member when that inventory is not available within the club. This request for specific inventory will be processed in the same manner as any other internal exchange request. The Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Program is not being provided any priority over other MVCI members who chose to use the internal exchange program operated by Interval. Additionally, any inventory confirmed to the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Program will be replaced with comparable inventory for every confirmation fulfilled by Interval. Consequently, there should be no negative impact on the usual availability of Marriott vacation weeks for any Interval International member."

Someone is on the Ebay Marriott Timeshare Board, offering 6,000 Marriott Vacation Club Points for $4,500 for enrolled Marriott Destination Club owners. This expires in 27 days.

You just got to love the person at Marriott who designed the point system. Listen to this!!! You can move points from say 2011 into 2012, but you have to do this by June 30th of 2011. And you can convert your 2012 week into points but you have to do it by September 30, 2011. And if you have over 6500 points you can make a reservation 13 months in advance IF inventory is available -- but it is isn't you have to wait until 12 months in advance to get on the request list. But in the meantime you can call them every day if you wish.

Good grief!!! You have to be willing to spend about all your awake time just to understand this program much less use it. My congratulations to those few Marriott people who actually do understand how all this works -- because to date many have given me really bum information. (Like the Marriott person who put be on the reservation list for my request 13 months in advance when they can't put you on it until 12 months in advance.) While I like some of the features, this has to be one of the most user unfriendly programs I have ever seen.