Getting rid of a time share.

glenday2 wrote:

You on the other hand have the State government on your side and the FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION. Use them put them to work for you.

I haven't seen where any state's government has helped clean up timeshares and all the lies and scams that exists in that industry.

There have been numerous testimonials from people that have gotten in touch with the Florida Attorney General's office with their timeshare complaints, but I've yet to read where anyone has been helped by that office or any other state's attorney general. The upfront fee parasites and the lies told by developer salespeople still exist. For some unexplainable reason these people continue getting away with their scams.

I do believe that a federal agency (don't know about the Federal Trade Commission) should set up strict guidelines concerning all phases of timeshare sales from the developer to resales and everything in between.

glenday2 wrote:

redbird wrote:

The rest of the story. I am the guy that asked the first question, How to get rid of a timeshare. We just returned from our time share in Florida. I went into the office and asked why I should pay a matainance fee of $1,265.00 on a week on a timeshare that I can't give away and I have tried. Or why I should give Sunterra $8,000.00, so they will give me 12000 points and pick up my matainance fees. (This is what they presented at what I was told was to be the owners meeting and not a sales presentation.) In the futurer than my fees will be only just over $1,000.00 for all the points and as all of know I will be able to probley get 4 weeks or more a year use if I convert to points and use them right. I don't want more timeshare time thank you. I have four weeks now. Here is what the manager at my timeshare told me why the need for the huge matainance fees. It seems that 20% of the weeks are not paying and because of the large deficit the people that pay have to bring the books up to date on the units that are not paying. Than when the 20% of the units are payed up and repossesed "Sunterra will take over the title and keep paying the maintainance fees. This sounds like in my opinion that Sunterra will be getting free units to sell more points on. Sunterra is building new units from the ground up just to sell points on and here they are just taking over these weeks after the loyal owners have paid till it hurts to clear the books on the defunct units. This has a funny smell to it. We haved owned these weeks for over 10 years and have always paid on time. Now it is our problem to pick up the deliquesce. I always felt that this resort was poorly managed but than what can one owner of two weeks do 1500 miles away. $1,268 per week in this resort amounts to over $65,000.00 Per unit week. I think you could build them new for that.

I agree all I can see if start filing a complaint with the attorney general in florida, then go to the consumer department, write the governor, however his staff realy does not care. I have written to channel 2 and asked them to investigate the illegal practices of TimeShare sales, and MF's. When you talk to these companies, they tell you it is a Mortgage, however you can not get a statement showing what you have paid, and your balance, then when you don't pay, they threaten to sue you and place a lien on your personal property. I am not a lawyer, but I know if you default on a Mortgage, there is no lien on personal property, you just lose you property which would be your time share, somehow these people make things really ugly. The good news is, they do not do things legally when it comes to using scare tactics. Remember one thing, they have their own in house banking, in house collection agency, and their in house attorney's. You on the other hand have the State government on your side and the FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION. Use them put them to work for you.

A prospective purchaser of a timeshare should do his/her due diligence before purchasing a timeshare. Sure, you will be offered incentives to purchase on the day of the presentation but don't do it. These incentives usually increase as you indicate a need to "sleep" on the deal. Your due diligence as a minimum should included the following:

1. Read the deed restrictions that govern the timeshare including any amendments. Request a copy and then verify that the copy given is like the one recorded in the deed records of the county where the timeshare is located. Oral promises mean nothing. The deed restriction together with amendments are all that matter.

2. Attend a meeting of the HOA (owners association) prior to purchasing. If you are barred from the meeting because you are not an owner, run away from the deal. At the meeting you will have an opportunity to mingle with other owners who will typically tell you the "good, the bad, and the ugly" about the timeshare. Learn about past MF increases and especially about prospective increases including special assessments. Remember the unit owners elect the Board of Directors who hire the management company whether it is Marriott, Hyatt, VRI, or whoever.

3. Increases in MF are provided by the deed restrictions and in no way are increases fraudulent per se. No state attorney general and no federal regulatory body will follow-up on a complaint that MFs are going up unless you can show that some individual or individuals are fraudulently padding their own pocket with the fees. This is because deed restrictions allow management to increase fees to cover increased costs. Most likely the fees are going up because they were intentionally kept low during the initial developer promotion in order to sell units with the expectation that they would increase of necessity after the units are all sold.

4. Remember, and this is very important, that the mortgage has nothing to do with MFs or special assessments. It is something you voluntarily entered into to finance your purchase of a timeshare. Certainly you should do your due diligence before signing an agreement to finance a timeshare purchase but again remember the mortgage terms are not governed by the deed restriction or the resort management team.

5. Remember that the default on a purchase money mortgage or upon the MFs will not result in an immediate lien upon your personal property. That is a lie just like the many you may have been told at the time of your purchase. Again, the mortgage and the MFs are two different items and are not related. A default on the mortgage will be governed by the terms of the mortgage and a default on MFs will be govered by the deed restrictions. Typically a default in a mortgage will result in a ding on your credit and a foreclosure of the timeshare. A typical default on the MFs will result in a series of increasingly hostile letters followed by collection calls. You can stop the calls with a cease and desist letter and collection calls following your letter will result in fines upon the collection agency imposed by the Federal Government. Finally, the resort will foreclose on the timeshare. Rarely, if ever, do they sue you even though you read volumes of material on this site aaying that they will. The reason they don't sue for a MF is that it is not a personal debt, that is, you never signed a promise to pay it. You will lose the property by not paying the MFs because the deed restrictions allow the HOA to take back the property upon a default in payment of the MFs. You say above that 20% of the units in a particular timeshare were abandoned by owners due to increasing MFs. I challenge you to go the the county were the property is located and find even one record of a suit for past due maintenance fees. You will find no suit for past due maintenance fees. Sure, you will find many foreclosures and even more deeds in lieu of foreclosure. To put a lien on your personal property the plaintiff (the resort) would have to sue you and recover a judgment which though some expense would be abstracted in the county of your residence to cloud the title to your personal and real property. It just doesn't happen. Still, the foreclosure will be a ding on your credit report for at least ten years and maybe more as it is a legal matter. The default on the mortgage will cloud your credit report for 7 years but legal matters such as jforeclosures remain on the report longer.

One key to success in purchasing a timeshare is doing your due diligence in advance. Timesshares are very easy to buy and extemely difficult to sell. In my opinion, the best out there are Hyatt and Marriott and even these resell for far less than the developer price and based on my monitoring on this site require months and even years to sell.

glenday3 wrote:

jayjay wrote:

If you merely want to get rid of your timeshare the charitable sites below might accept it. However, all maintenance fees must be paid up to date and there should be no liens (if you financed it) on the property:

http://www.timesharetrap.com/charities_that_accept_timeshare_donations.html

redbird wrote:

How does one get rid of a timeshare that we no longer use and can't sell for just one maintainace fee or less. We just attended a presentation with a company called Timeshare Relief Inc. Has anyone had any experiance with that Co. They wanted $3500 for one week and $4200 for two weeks to end all obligations to the timeshare that we own. Than they said that we could write off all the loss from purchase price and the amount they charged to get rid of the timeshare aginst capital gaines and never have to pay another maintaince fee again. Our timeshare is now going to charge an extra assessment plus maintaince to the total of just under $1,000 per week on a timeshare that we could not sell for $500. Also it is available for extra weeks on RCI for under $400. Need Ideas

I was told by the Attorney General of Florida and I live in California these are Scam Artists, check with the Attorney Generalin your state to find out you can google it to get more information

glenday2 states in relevant part: >> Just spoke to Florida Department of Business & Professional Regulation. If you can't get rid of you time share and you are being eaten up alive by MF's you can write the company and returnthe TS stating the following "I am returning the said ts inliew of foreclosure" << =============================================

With all due respect, I think that you either misunderstood what was communicated to you, or you were given incomplete information in the first place.

It is true that SOME resorts voluntarily accept a "deedback" (as it is generally known in the industry) in lieu of foreclosure. However, NO resort is legally obligated to do this and many would never even consider allowing someone to just unilaterally "return" a legal ownership and its associated financial obligations. Whether or not to accept deedbacks is usually a policy decision made by the resort HOA or board --- it's NOT something that you can simply decide to just do unilaterally, entirely on your own, as an individual owner, without their consent and cooperation.

Think about this from the resort perspective --- as long as YOU own the week, YOU owe the annual maintenance fees, late fees and interest. The resort views that fact mostly as your problem, not theirs. On the other hand, if they accept a "deedback" (most don't), they relinquish the right and the opportunity to collect those owed back fees from you. Furthermore, they then have no one in your place paying maintenance fees for that week until the week gets resold to someone else.

Bottom line is that "deedback" is simply NOT your decision to make alone, unilaterally, without the full cooperation and consent of the resort involved. If the resort does not accept deedbacks (and most don't), your "deedback offer" will just be summarily ignored and, sooner or later (after all MF collection efforts have failed) you'll simply be legally foreclosed upon.

glenday3 wrote:

Just spoke to Florida Department of Business & Professional Regulation. If you can't get rid of you time share and you are being eaten up alive by MF's you can write the company and returnthe TS stating the following "I am returning the said ts inliew of foreclosure" also follow upwith all your complaints and most of all file your complaint with the FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION

Be aware that foreclosure will negatively impact your credit rating.

jayjay wrote:

glenday3 wrote:

Just spoke to Florida Department of Business & Professional Regulation. If you can't get rid of you time share and you are being eaten up alive by MF's you can write the company and returnthe TS stating the following "I am returning the said ts inliew of foreclosure" also follow upwith all your complaints and most of all file your complaint with the FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION

Be aware that foreclosure will negatively impact your credit rating.

In reading timeshare forums for several years, I haven't come across very many timeshares that the resort/HOA will take the deed back .... most go into foreclosure.

Also, if maintenance fees are still owed by owners, it will negatively affect their credit rating. It's a bill like any other bill owed.

redbird wrote:

How does one get rid of a timeshare that we no longer use and can't sell for just one maintainace fee or less. We just attended a presentation with a company called Timeshare Relief Inc. Has anyone had any experiance with that Co. They wanted $3500 for one week and $4200 for two weeks to end all obligations to the timeshare that we own. Than they said that we could write off all the loss from purchase price and the amount they charged to get rid of the timeshare aginst capital gaines and never have to pay another maintaince fee again. Our timeshare is now going to charge an extra assessment plus maintaince to the total of just under $1,000 per week on a timeshare that we could not sell for $500. Also it is available for extra weeks on RCI for under $400. Need Ideas

I got rid of one by paying $300.00 to a trust listed on ebay. It is listed under get rid of your timeshare. He bought mine, while I owed $1200.00 in back fees. He sent me a copy of the recorded deed proven that he finished his comitment to me. I also have not recieved any more letters from the resort. So I would suggest if you can not sell your unit to go to ebay and try him before paying a fortune to these other rip of companies.

glenday3 wrote:

jayjay wrote:

ken1193 wrote:

Where exactly are maintenance fees that high??? I have owned a handful of coastal U.S. location weeks, at several different resorts, for almost 25 years now. NONE of my annual maintenance fees have yet reached $600, so I'm genuinely curious about the factual basis for your $1200 MF reference (which is more than twice the amount which I pay for any of my weeks). Where exactly might that $1200 MF be, if I may ask?

He's probably talking about the high end timeshares such as Marriott, Westin, 4 Seasons, Hyatt, Hilton, Disney and others where the maintenance fees are always higher.

I know that Marriott had a substantial hike in maintenance fees for 2008 and their maintenance fees are now in the $1000+ range.

Florida @ Club Navigo and it isn't even the 4 seasons or Hyatt

I totally agree with you, but where do we start? Florida has the worst reputation by far.

glenday3 wrote:

I too am in trouble with my time share, I have been trying to get rid of my time share like everyone else the MF are outrageous. It seems since I am in California and my time share is in Florida they just increase and increase, I have been in contact with every government agency. I finally contacted the Division of Consumer Service Department of Agriculter Consumer Affairs, it turns out Island One/Club Navigo, Like Tiki is not even in their system, they may not even be a valid company. I may be saved. so anyone who needs to get out of their contract and needs hellp please call 850-488-2221 give them the address of your timeshare, and then file the complaint, I have filed a complaint with every other government agency and they never once told me this is the one agency I was suppose to start with. You want your money back this is the place to start. Glenda yakesluv@sbcglobal.net

Check out get rid of your timeshare on ebay. I got rid of mine for $300.00

redbird wrote:

How does one get rid of a timeshare that we no longer use and can't sell for just one maintainace fee or less. We just attended a presentation with a company called Timeshare Relief Inc. Has anyone had any experiance with that Co. They wanted $3500 for one week and $4200 for two weeks to end all obligations to the timeshare that we own. Than they said that we could write off all the loss from purchase price and the amount they charged to get rid of the timeshare aginst capital gaines and never have to pay another maintaince fee again. Our timeshare is now going to charge an extra assessment plus maintaince to the total of just under $1,000 per week on a timeshare that we could not sell for $500. Also it is available for extra weeks on RCI for under $400. Need Ideas

Check out the listing get rid of your timeshare on ebay.

I used them to get rid of two timeshares. You need to negotiate with them. I got rid of two timeshares and got a membership to a vacation club called Go Where and When. All this for $1000. I'm not sure this is the same company, but it sounds like it.

johnd1052 states: >> I got rid of one by paying $300.00 to a trust listed on ebay. It is listed under get rid of your timeshare. He bought mine, while I owed $1200.00 in back fees. He sent me a copy of the recorded deed proven that he finished his comitment to me. I also have not recieved any more letters from the resort. So I would suggest if you can not sell your unit to go to ebay and try him before paying a fortune to these other rip of companies.<< ==================================================

Uh-oh..... I don't want to burst your bubble here John, but you may not really have "gotten rid of" anything yet.

If this "trust" fellow was someone located in Salem, New Hampshire, then I believe that this might be the very same guy who was "booted" from timeshare sites (including this one) and also previously disappeared rather quickly from eBay --- maybe now "he's BAAACK..."

What this fellow was proposing to do seemed to be, in effect, outright fraud (which, by the way, potentially has criminal consequences).

If it's the same fellow, the "trust" he set up, according to his own open proclamations, is evidently just a "shell" --- a non-existent entity comprised of non-existent people. He seemed at the time to be bragging that "the resorts wouldn't be able to touch him". I remember openly stating in response, in various forums at that time, that *IF* he was correct that the resorts couldn't touch him, then the judicial system most certainly could --- and very likely would do so at some point if he was deliberately and knowingly engaged in fraud.

I seem to vaguely further recall that his scheme was to ultimately approach the resort with the newly recorded deed, now in the name of this shell / "trust" (... a deed which may ultimately be determined to be legally invalid anyhow, if it was actually created and recorded under willfully fraudulent circumstances in the first place). He went on to further announce that he would at some point approach the resort and basically announce that his "shell" / trust) was the new owner --- and ask them "would you NOW like to take this timeshare back, since the shell / trust is (at least in his own mind, anyhow) is allegedly "untouchable" and that further, will not be accepting or paying any past, present or future maintenance fees?"

I have no idea if this is the exact same individual with whom you now report having apparently conducted a "transaction". If so, be advised that it is entirely possible that you haven't yet heard the last of this matter. You may, at some point, hear from state or federal law enforcement investigators. I'm certainly not saying that YOU have done anything wrong or illegal here; I am not saying that at all. What I AM saying very clearly, however, is that you MAY very well have been an unknowing participant in a pre-meditated, criminally fraudulent scheme. Stand by and stay tuned.....

I'm pretty sure it's the same guy. Inone of johnd1052 other posts (in different threads) mentions the name Warren. :o.

ken1193 wrote:

johnd1052 states: >> I got rid of one by paying $300.00 to a trust listed on ebay. It is listed under get rid of your timeshare. He bought mine, while I owed $1200.00 in back fees. He sent me a copy of the recorded deed proven that he finished his comitment to me. I also have not recieved any more letters from the resort. So I would suggest if you can not sell your unit to go to ebay and try him before paying a fortune to these other rip of companies.<< ==================================================

Uh-oh..... I don't want to burst your bubble here John, but you may not really have "gotten rid of" anything yet.

If this "trust" fellow was someone located in Salem, New Hampshire, then I believe that this might be the very same guy who was "booted" from timeshare sites (including this one) and also previously disappeared rather quickly from eBay --- maybe now "he's BAAACK..."

What this fellow was proposing to do seemed to be, in effect, outright fraud (which, by the way, potentially has criminal consequences).

If it's the same fellow, the "trust" he set up, according to his own open proclamations, is evidently just a "shell" --- a non-existent entity comprised of non-existent people. He seemed at the time to be bragging that "the resorts wouldn't be able to touch him". I remember openly stating in response, in various forums at that time, that *IF* he was correct that the resorts couldn't touch him, then the judicial system most certainly could --- and very likely would do so at some point if he was deliberately and knowingly engaged in fraud.

I seem to vaguely further recall that his scheme was to ultimately approach the resort with the newly recorded deed, now in the name of this shell / "trust" (... a deed which may ultimately be determined to be legally invalid anyhow, if it was actually created and recorded under willfully fraudulent circumstances in the first place). He went on to further announce that he would at some point approach the resort and basically announce that his "shell" / trust) was the new owner --- and ask them "would you NOW like to take this timeshare back, since the shell / trust is (at least in his own mind, anyhow) is allegedly "untouchable" and that further, will not be accepting or paying any past, present or future maintenance fees?"

I have no idea if this is the exact same individual with whom you now report having apparently conducted a "transaction". If so, be advised that it is entirely possible that you haven't yet heard the last of this matter. You may, at some point, hear from state or federal law enforcement investigators. I'm certainly not saying that YOU have done anything wrong or illegal here; I am not saying that at all. What I AM saying very clearly, however, is that you MAY very well have been an unknowing participant in a pre-meditated, criminally fraudulent scheme. Stand by and stay tuned.....

Sorry I have a copy of a recorded deed of which it shows that I sold my unit to his trust. I do not care what happens to him. But, I have no legal obligation to that unit ever again. As far as I can see he has been on ebay for several years. So people can take advantage of him while he is operating.

I also just gave my lawyer a quick call and asked him, if I could liable for any of his actions or have the deed reversed back to me. The answer is no, irregaardless I sold it in good faith for $1.00. Anything that he does is his resposibility.

How do you define "sold it in good faith"? This transaction would not meet my definition of good faith.

Any lawyer who in a quick phone call gives an answer off the top of his/her head involving a transfer by deed to a trust without reviewing the trust instrument had better have his/her malpractice insurance current!

deleted duplicate post ---actual post follows below

johnd1052, blinders firmly locked in place, has stated: >> Sorry I have a copy of a recorded deed of which it shows that I sold my unit to his trust. I do not care what happens to him. But, I have no legal obligation to that unit ever again. << =================================================

I'm sure that's (understandably) what you want to believe, but you don't seem to grasp or want to acknowledge that a deed being "recorded" does NOT magically make that deed a legally valid instrument. Actually, most counties will record almost any deed presented to them in the correct format if the appropriate recordation fee is included upon submission. The county records folks don't determine the validity of a document, they merely record it. So, do NOT confuse "recorded" with "legally valid"; the two concepts are most assuredly NOT the same. If you had quit claimed the deed for your timeshare to Donald Duck or to Bugs Bunny and the county subsequently recorded the deed, do you really somehow still believe that would be a valid deed, just because it was "recorded"?

In any case, you clearly don't want or wecome any input or cautionary words on the matter, so I'll instead simply wish you the best of luck; you may very well need it. However, I ask you to at least consider whether you should attempt to direct others down the same path which you have taken. If that path proves to be one of knowing, willful, deliberate fraud by this alleged "trust" (which is exactly what all this seems like to me), you will not have done those other people any favors if / when their "recorded" deeds to a phony shell "trust" are ultimately determined (along with yours...) to be invalid and void. When that inevitably happens, they (...and you) will end up right back where they (...and you) started before the "recorded" (but nonetheless entirely void) transaction took place --- i.e., still owning the timeshare, still owing unpaid back fees and, with the further passage of time, also owing additional interest. Just food for thought, to accept or ignore as you see fit.